Serious question
Arrive in Britain
Refer to the locals as Welsh, meaning foreigner
Murder a fuck-tonne of them to steal their land
The Saxons are the true fathers of English values.
The Picts made sure the Celtic cultures got their revenge on the Saxons, don't worry. They and the Britons who retreated to Wales were a constant pain in the ass for England.
I really need to do that effort post on mediaeval Welsh guerilla warfare at some point.
You should do it. The medieval Welsh were excellent archers so much so that before England trained up it's own longbowmen, they hired Welsh longbowmen as their main force of archers. Eventually England had it's own life longbowmen and the need for mercenaries left, but for a time they were England's long rage fighters.
I mean, I don't know, you could say both Scotland and Wales still eventually ended up as English colonial projects, but at the same time people usually revere the Celtic Fringe of britain and talk down England.
All I all I just like history, I think the user Dolores summed it nicely when they implied that everyone back then was just probably not a very nice person and a lot of bad shit was done to each other.
The Welsh brought in the Saxons because they wanted them to kill the Picts
why, they were all raiding pillaging bands who practiced slavery on their neighbors and called them mean names.
the only difference between the germanic speakers who moved into the roman provinces of britannia found no urbanized tax base they needed to integrate with. that's why former roman provincials in Gaul or Hispania or Italy kept their language & the barbarian kingdoms were latinized, where the romano-britons simply became english---taxes and cities.
Roman british society completely collapsed under the economic pressure of roman withdrawal and a devastating plague; Saxons didnt overrun the walls of Londinium, it was abandoned.
Yeah I do know the Scoti tribe from Ireland were the pirates and bandits on the west coast of great Britain as opposed to the Germanic tribes who did the same activities on the eastern shores of great Britain
The plastic paddies we have in America would probably shit themselves if they knew this. Yes, I'm going to keep quiet about it.
Yeah it's just kind of one of those facts where you are like " no way the patron st of Ireland wasn't even Irish but a kidnapped brit?"
That was kind of funny you were like 'why? they were all not very nice people who enslaved each other and called them mean names'
Yeah I know you were basically saying most groups back then we're roving bands of warrior cultures who were mostly not very nice people
Put it this way St Patrick got to Ireland by means of being kidnapped and sold into slavery as a child
sure i have favorite factions in arthurian total war but im obliged to be somewhat evenhanded on account of my education or whatever
I like my proud warrior cultures when they don't get subsumed into the anti-Christ and used as the "Bulwark against Slavic Paganism"
Saxons OUT
:haram:
Scotland Ireland and Wales as well as Cornwall are okay with you though right?
They earned my begrudging respect in their insurgent war against the forces of darkness (the thrice-accursed R*man Empire), but are on thin ice and better watch themselves.
Love to associate modern national identities to cultures that are older than Christ lol
Saxons go home. But also neither were very nice by modern standards. Stan the Tuatha De Dannan I guess.
Picts are the people who were there before the Celtic migration. nobody really knows where the Celts came from. the most accepted hypothesis is that they came from central europe (modern day austria). newer hypotheses are that they were originally from the Atlantic coast of europe or Gaul
the idea picts are a kind of rump 'indigenous' enclave is no longer popular they've found some inscriptions & analyzed the names and think they also spoke a celtic language
This is what Ive always heard. I thought it was generally accepted they spoke a Brythonic tounge similar in some ways to Welsh.
there is proof they spoke a proto-Celtic language before the mass bronze age migration by the Celts. but this doesnt mean theyre Celts. i would argue it proves the opposite: that the “Celtic” identity originated from that bronze age migration to differentiate themselves from the Picts. even if they share common ancestors only a few centuries prior to that, the Picts are the oldest group we have evidence of existing on terf island.
the fact that they spoke a “proto-Celtic” language only shows that language developed when the Picts’ ancestors lived in mainland europe and there are similarities from the language the Celts used due to common ancestry
or maybe their language was influenced by the Celts after both groups lived on the island
there is proof they
there is proof people lived in britain who did not speak celtic. their relationship to or identification with 'Picts' is pure conjecture.
true, my bad. i was using the term Picts to refer to another people.
calling them Picts is inaccurate actually since thats the names the romans gave them and by then Celtic identity had been established. when i say Pict i mean the people who were there before the Celts
Fair enough. Yeah I've always heard the theory they were celts, but it seems that's becoming dated. They still are a pretty big mystery and what happened to them I don't think we know yet.
Most likely theory is that they just were absorbed by the Scoti and Britons as well as the angles living in Scotland at the same time.
ancient history is a fuck. all we have are clues and we’re left to connect the dots. but my personal theory is that the Celts originated in Gaul, colonized a bit in the east and west (hence their presence in current day austria and the west coast of europe. then as a result of the romans terrorizing them, migrated north until they colonized terf island and pushed the Picts north. then when the romans came to the isles the Celts were pushed north and mixed with the Picts (who knows how long the Picts were there for, they might have been only a few centuries removed from the Celts)
