Hello, I have been a poster on this site for a while but created this account for self-doxx reasons. I would be happy to post under my regular account if other users think that would be safe. I’m going out on a limb posting this because legal advice is expensive and I am a working class college student in CA, USA, and you know how that goes. In short, my parent died a few months ago, without a will or a spouse, they had a small estate, and I need good advice on how to deal with their credit card debts. I understand that, as their child, I am under no obligation to pay them, but I am worried the creditors will come for a chunk of the estate if I try to take possession of my parent’s bank accounts. It seems like it might be a can of worms.
Side note, I have not canceled their credit cards or really done anything with their finances yet. No doubt, interest and late fees are accruing, so I should probably deal with this sooner rather than later.
My parent did not make much money in their life or own much, but they did manage to buy a house a few years ago in a rural county of California. They paid the mortgage and all their other bills with their Social Security checks, their only source of income. I have one sibling, who is trusting me to act as the representative of the estate. Well, the problem is we’re both basically clueless on this stuff, having practically no financial or legal education. So I’m appealing to Hexbear to give me some advice on how to handle the banks.
Since I am generally disgusted with the institution of landlording, I do not want to rent out the house (probably infeasible anyway), I want to sell it as soon as possible. California considers our parent’s estate to be a small estate, meaning there is no “full” probate process, just hopefully one court date and creditors do not have to be notified, to my current understanding. But my worry is that, if I try to take possession of our parent’s bank accounts (which, I believe, contain a few hundred dollars tops, because our parent was behind on several bills and really struggling financially for a long time) the banks will try to claw back what they owed on their credit cards, taking a significant chunk out of the equity, which I am somewhat counting on to help me finish my degree. I am well on the way to running out my financial aid, so this is pivotal for me.
I have yet to gain access to my parent’s online accounts, and ultimately might not be able to (I have yet to find any login info to their bank portal, main email account, etc.). I am still working on clearing out their house. It’s a miserable process between the ass weather and having to drive several hours each way from where I live, while still trying to attend classes and work my jobs part time, and the bills keep piling up. So, I have yet to address the credit card issue; I have not even called them up to cancel the cards yet.
Where should I go from here? How should I deal with the banks in a way that doesn’t end up with the vampires trying to suck us dry/us getting fucked over?
EDIT: Gonna shamelessly ask everyone to upbear this post even if you don't have answers/advice so hopefully someone who knows can see it. Thank you!! —Follow up: Thank you everyone who boosted this post, now I'm a little embarrassed that it got promoted to the front page but I guess that's literally what I asked for. I will probably follow StellarTabi's advice and delete it soon, repost elsewhere. Thank you everyone who has weighed in on my questions.
EDIT: Probably worth mentioning that my parent caught COVID at least once and I believe their death was partly due to that. The condition they died of was associated with post-infection risk factors of COVID. In my opinion, it was a social murder and I now have a permanent grudge against the political establishment and the system that did this to us.
I would look for a legal aid office in your area. It’s federally funded so it exists everywhere and it’s free if you’re below the income limit. No guarantee they could actually take your case but they may at least give you some good advice.
Also, it’s different from applying for some kind of benefit program in that I have never heard of a legal aid office doing anything to verify the income/asset numbers you give them for eligibility purposes. They generally just take you at your word.
Understood, I am renewing my search for pro bono legal advice. Didn't have much luck before, because it was the holidays, but hopefully someone's available now. Thank you!
Also along these lines, most (all?) state bar associations have a list of attorneys who will do at least an initial consultation for cheap or free. Googling "[state] bar association free legal help/ways to get legal assistance/pro bono" should point you in the right direction.
Even if you're priced out of more legal help, you might get some initial advice or get a feel for if you need a lawyer at all.
Thank you, I tried those keywords and the results are much more useful than what I was getting before. I'm following the advice of the thread and looking for low-income legal advice. It actually didn't occur to me that the state bar would have lists of pro bono lawyers. Thank you for weighing in.
Think this is above the paygrade of hexbear I feel. Try get a trustworthy lawyer if you can
Fair enough. I've been wanting to ask the internet for quite some time now because the estate attorney wanted $270/hr just to sit down and ask questions :\
Searching online is tough because most of the results are SEO-optimized ads for more lawyers. Just sucks man.
It shouldn't be too many hours. My mom just had to settle a pretty complicated estate due to multiple siblings squabbling over the dust left from my grandfather's passing and her bill to the lawyer was less than a grand total.
Thank you. This does help, actually; I'm interested in hearing what other people would do in my shoes
Oof. Thats not great. I know nothing about American law though, so I can't give any advice, sorry
I'll upvote your post for visibility
It's kind of a shithole but this is the sort of thing /r/LegalAdvice is supposed to be good at. I'm sorry for your loss and hope you get some breathing room after the estate process.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment and sentiments. I will probably make a post there soon.
Reposting here because it's a better spot:
Also along these lines, most (all?) state bar associations have a list of attorneys who will do at least an initial consultation for cheap or free. Googling "[state] bar association free legal help/ways to get legal assistance/pro bono" should point you in the right direction.
Even if you're priced out of more legal help, you might get some initial advice or get a feel for if you need a lawyer at all.
Thank you for your input, I am going down the list to try to find a lawyer to talk to about this pro bono. Hopefully better luck than when I tried to do this during the holiday season!
Sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to resolve this with the minimum of struggle and take the space you need to grieve and continue living your life.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Not gonna lie, this really sucks but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I would reccomend you don't pay anything to the credit cards without being told to by a lawyer. If you pay even a nominal sum towards them it might count as you assuming the debt. The debt could then transfer to you instead of being lost. An actual lawyer would give you better advice since this is only something I've read about.
Credit cards are unsecured debt so basically they shouldn't be able to do anything to you or your parent's estate. Don't pay them unless a lawyer tells you to. (Mortgages are secured debt so they would be able to take the house for non-payment).
California is one of the hellstates where you can inherit your parent's medical debt. This is relatively rare though and there are a number of exemptions.
don’t pay anything to the credit cards without being told to by a lawyer
:this:
Depending on how scummy the financial institution that owns your parents' debt is, they can and will lie to you every way to Sunday to get you to pony up even if you're not legally liable, and once you pay in a little you'll quickly be on the hook for everything. In general, children don't inherit debts, except for a few specific exceptions like end of life care or nursing home charges.
Yeah hell no I ain't paying that shit, lol, not if I don't have to
Mercifully, it looks like we get to avoid the medical aspect of hellstate, since their Medicare is mostly covering those bills so far.
The credit cards, I understand, are a third rail for the reason you described, and unsecured debt, so there's no way I'm willingly paying them anything. Fuck em! (hopefully)
AFAIK the estate is obligated to settle debts before it can be inherited.
Shouldn't the value of the house be more than enough to settle $35k worth of debt like five or six times over?
Should be, but they paid off less than $10,000 on the mortgage in the last few years of their life. I'm expecting some credits for the buyer as well, since it'll need roofing and other work. Hard to say at this point, since the court date is still upcoming and we haven't listed the property yet.
Depending on how long they lived there, the value of it may have appreciated enough to leave you with something. But I wouldn't count on much, and I'd probably start looking for other financial aid when you can.
I'm definitely expecting something, at least, yeah. Looking forward to the
endtemporary alleviation of precarity, then I can look outward a little more, become more active in the local orgs, help people out (c/mutualaid) and so on.Hate to be a wet blanket but don't count your chickens before they hatch. If the house is in significant disrepair it could wipe out a big chunk of those gains too.
Hence why I'm worried about these creditors :\ it's in decent shape compared to other houses that are selling in the area, though, but the uncertainty is a stressor for sure.
My condolences.
I've recently experienced a similar circumstance. Parent passed with no written will and no records of financial accounts.
My family had to piece everything together from memory and what little paperwork they left us.
In order to legally get money out of your parent's bank accounts you will need to contact the banks and inform them of your parents passing. You will probably need to present a death certificate (have copies). Once the banks know that your parent is deceased, the bank can distribute the remainders of your parents balance to the account beneficiaries. Hopefully your parent listed you as the beneficiary.
If there are no beneficiaries for your parents bank accounts, the bank will tell you that you'll need to jump through some additional hoops. You will probably need to get and fill out a AFFIDAVIT FOR COLLECTION OF PERSONAL PROPERTY (or equivalent for your state).
Also, you didn't mention whether your parent left a retirement account or 401k behind. To receive the balance of any retirement account you'll need to contact the institution that manages their retirement account, inform them of your parents passing, and request to file a beneficiary claim (again, it will be easier if you are a beneficiary on their retirement account).
What I've described above is the legitimate way of getting control over your parents finances. You could illegally drain their accounts if youve got their bank account username and password. This is faster but uh this will probably raise some red flags at the bank.
Thank you for your input! I was definitely hoping someone else had gone through something like this before and could weigh in on how to deal with it.
I do have the affidavit form in hand and certified copies of the death certificate; I'm just afraid to go down there because I don't know what will happen after that.
As far as retirement accounts, life insurance, etc., my searches through their documents have not turned up anything yet.
I am following people's advice and looking up legal help through the state/county and the university. As luck would have it, they died right before the holiday season (:agony-shivering:) so the free services were unavailable when I tried this the first time, but it makes sense to try again. I have already filed for succession and have an upcoming court date but still have all these questions floating around unanswered in the background. I'm following the advice of the thread and looking for pro bono legal advice.
This stuff is really time consuming, unfortunately I went through something similar recently too. My condolences. I'll follow up here since my experience was largely the same as the previous poster.
Was your parent ever employed? If so, their employer probably had info on their life insurance, retirement etc. I had to go through them to get that. Even if they weren't currently employed, you could try contacting the most recent job they had even if it was years ago.
Also try searching, "your county" self help legal services, should be provided by your county court system. I was able to set a phone appointment and talk to someone and get advice on what to fill out and do.
I second the suggestion to look for a legal aid office in your area. It's also worth reaching out to your university. There are typically lots of support programs for students, and legal aid is sometimes one of them. If you can't find anything in the directory, there's definitely aid for mental health, and I bet you they're used to sending students to the right place for free legal help. You can also get some free counseling, since you're going through a lot of stress on top of grieving your parent. I'm so sorry you're going through this, and that the whole American quagmire of a system makes the death of a loved one that much harder, as if you didn't already have enough to bear. :meow-hug:
There are typically lots of support programs for students, and legal aid is sometimes one of them.
It's called Student Legal Services at a lot of schools; it's a national organization.
Thank you! I didn't have much luck getting help through the university before, but it looks like they have more availability now. Thank you for your input!
The accounts (vague amounts, again for self-doxx reasons):
- Wells Fargo, several thousand dollars owed (less than $10,000).
- Bank of America, over $19,000 owed but less than $25,000 owed.
I have ascertained that they had checking and probably savings accounts with both banks.
$35,000 in debt but they've only paid $10,000 into the mortgage?
How much was the sale price of the home and what is it's current value? (I don't actually need to know).
If the current value is more than $25,000 over the sale price, you probably have more equity in the house than debt, so you could sell it, pay off the debt, keep the leftovers.
Otherwise, you'd be selling the house and it's value would be less than the full debt of the credit cards. They can legally claim all your parent's stuff up to the value of that debt, so that might leave you with nothing. I don't think they can come after you unless you try to "sneak" the house's title under your name, and I don't know the probability of them not figuring that out. I assume /r/LegalAdvice would say it's a high chance.
In the second house scenario, we'd probably want to strategize on some ways to extract value from the house before foreclosing starts, assuming the credit card companies debt collection attempts anything. Might even want an estate lawyer or something to make sure you're not doing anything illegal or putting yourself at personal liability.
Understood. Actually, I must be wrong about the $10,000 figure, but in any case I should probably delete this account after I've gotten the advice and orientation that I need. Or at least scrub the personal details so other people can get answers (I know I needed something like this when it first happened). Thank you for your input!
What did you have in mind with:
we’d probably want to strategize on some ways to extract value from the house before foreclosing starts ?
I've been pulling out all the appliances and tools that I can find and bringing them back to my apartment, and of course some sentimental things, but were you thinking of something else?
IDK, might need a thread just for this question from others.
For example, if it's going to be forclosed and selling is the bank's problem, then you could AirBNB it out. It won't matter if the tenants trash it because it'll be the bank or the bidder at an auction who has to actually repair/remodel it. Less ethically, you could sell the copper and AC/heating.
You could also attend the auction to see if you could get it back for a fraction of it's full value, but probably don't have enough liquid cash even if it goes as low as 50k.
Sorry I don’t know anything about laws. There might be someone at your school who is either equipped to help you or point you to someone who can on a more affordable basis.
Stop posting about it right this moment. Contact a lawyer. If you don’t know of one, use the phone book and call up one who does estate law.
Generally estate lawyers are backed up as fuck and specialize in particular things (high dollar wills, gun trusts, people who pass without a designated executor or will like you, etc) and will tell you something like “that’s not what we usually do but call this office down the street, they handle that”.
Once you land on one they’re gonna ask you stuff like “am I representing you alone or the beneficiaries?” Give it some thought and maybe even bring the other beneficiaries in to the conversation if you want. Or don’t.
The lawyer will be expensive relative to services you’ve paid for in the past. That’s okay. When you manage to sneak the estate away from creditors it’ll work out.
Stop posting about it.
E: stop doing things until directed to by the lawyer.