That’s how you know this is nonsense: if late-night driving were really more dangerous, real insurance companies would already charge more for it.
Unless they have the safe driving monitors, how would they know this?
It’d have to take a lot of other factors to overcome fewer cars = fewer collisions, too.
I don't think this tracks on a great big statistical level. You wipe out one pedestrian because you were going too fast for the visibility conditions of night, are found partially at fault and now the insurance company has to pay out the big bucks. Never mind all the folks driving way too tired or under the influence at night. The insurance company doesn't only have to pay out when you hit another car.
Unless they have the safe driving monitors, how would they know this?
A lot of people are pretty honest. You ask them how many miles are on their car and how much they drive every week and they'll give you a decently true answer. It'd be the same if you ask when they usually commute/drive. Then, if there's an accident and the company looks into it further and finds their customer was lying, they lower/refuse coverage as a policy violation.
If your car is damaged and it turns out it has three times the miles you told your insurer it had, that would probably be an issue for you, right? At minimum it would impact how much they pay you to repair/replace, and they'd probably hike your rates up going forward.
The insurance company doesn’t only have to pay out when you hit another car.
Good points on all the other hazards at night. I'm just guessing "there are fewer things to hit" outweighs everything else the vast majority of the time.
Between working as a rideshare driver and a lot of distance drives for work/travel, I really prefer driving at night. Even in major cities or busy highways you often find largely empty roads.
If your car is damaged and it turns out it has three times the miles you told your insurer it had, that would probably be an issue for you, right? At minimum it would impact how much they pay you to repair/replace, and they’d probably hike your rates up going forward.
Yeah but that's an easily identifiable marker, just check the odometer. I guess you could theoretically get a "daylight driving only" quote for your insurance, but no one would ever take that.
Good points on all the other hazards at night. I’m just guessing “there are fewer things to hit” outweighs everything else the vast majority of the time.
I'd argue there's a basically infinite number of things to hit with your car at any given moment. Traffic also slows people down, which reduces the chance of someone careening their car into a storefront. That probably doesn't work as well at night.
Between working as a rideshare driver and a lot of distance drives for work/travel, I really prefer driving at night. Even in major cities or busy highways you often find largely empty roads.
which if you're not a moron: good, safe. Which, if you are, and there's a substantial amount of drivers that fit the bill: that's an invitation to go speeding recklessly since "There's no cars to hit" until you crash.
Coming at this from a bicycle perspective: riding in the daytime is high risk / low intensity, riding at night is low risk / high intensity.
One is a constant scare to get sideclipped by some asshole going 3mph faster, but that's survivable. The other one is being fine, then being dead, because I got clipped at 35mph excess because "there's no one on the roads at this time anyways"
Accident reports, hospital admittance reports, insurance claims filed (which typically go much smoother when there is a police report which is gonna have estimated time of accident and when filed).
Also, the increase in cost wasn't because the driver DID hit somebody or have an accident, it was increased because some statistic said there would be a slight increase in the possibility of an accident in certain conditions.
Also, the increase in cost wasn’t because the driver DID hit somebody or have an accident, it was increased because some statistic said there would be a slight increase in the possibility of an accident in certain conditions.
See what I don't get how this is materially different from any number of other statistical measures by which you pay more insurance even if you did nothing wrong. They do this by zip code, some measure of type of car or whatever and so on and so on.
And even in like a non capitalist world, barring subsidies or such, how else would you ever solve the question of insurance?
Its late and I'm probably not going to do this justice.
So I spent the better part of 10 years working nights and weekends with a 2 hour commute and never once got into an accident with another vehicle or human being. Why should my car insurance increase? I'm working minimum wage so I can't afford it, driving on roads I always drive on so there isn't going to be any surprises, and during hours when there is less traffic and zero pedestrians. Outside of some OTHER driver hitting me or a deer wanting a lift or something, it was safer to drive at night. So yea, some number cruncher somewhere says there is a .000001 percent increase in the "chance" that something happens and I get fucked? No thanks.
Also, its kinda fucked up that something like, having a family emergency, pregnant spouse, really sick kid and driving to a hospital means that not only will you get beat with hospital bills you'll get an increase in your car insurance rates "just 'cause".
Hell, spending years paying hundreds in car insurance a month without filing a claim could mean that the insurance company just straight up owes me a car.
~15 hour later addition ~
See what I don’t get how this is materially different from any number of other statistical measures by which you pay more insurance even if you did nothing wrong.
I guess it shouldnt need to be said, but I'll say it anyways. Insurance companies are for profit, all of the statistics are meant to help them pad their bottom line. A car accident happening at night probably doesn't cost them any more than a car accident during the day so there's no good reason to charge somebody more for the color of their car or if they commute to work 5 days a week.
Outside of some OTHER driver hitting me or a deer wanting a lift or something, it was safer to drive at night.
Or you (generally, not specifically) careening into anything because open roads lead to speeding or whatever.,
Seriously though, I agree insurances are profit driven assholes. This isn't a defense of them. I'm just genuinely wondering how you would solve this any different even with the profit motive removed without subsidizing people unfairly
So the way I see it, that something "might" happen more often doesn't make it more expensive when it does happen. If somebody runs into my car at night or during the day, the cost to repair will be the same. Medical bills for being hit by a car will be the same if the driver is drunk, or distracted, or completely sober and attentive. Increasing the insurance bill arbitrarily in the way the OP refers to is just shitty. I could maybe be okay with it if the person normally drove at night doing something where an accident would be more costly as insurance rates are already adjusted according to your self reported estimate of who many miles a day/week you drive, but unless we're talking about a semi truck carrying hazardous materials an accident isn't going to cost more.
Trying to increase insurance rates as a punitive way to reduce a driver getting into an accident seems shitty as it going to do lots of financial harm to people who will never be in an accident. Its just mass punishment whose only justification is to maximize profits.
Realistic answer is to nationalize auto insurance. There's only one insurance pool so the drivers that aren't in accidents are paying for the ones that are in accidents. No profit motive required that will see insurance rates increase year on year no matter how responsible a driver you are. Treat it like Obamacare treated health insurance, where those who paid insurance premiums but didn't use the insurance would get some of their money back. If there is an actual concern about paying for accidents that happen at night, or with drivers who have long commutes, or anything else that would encourage an increase in insurance rates but none of those things happen then just give the money back to the insured.
Utopian answer is to have planned cities with proper free to use public transit to reduce traffic in cities and some on highways (I imagine some commuters just go to work and don't need to do extra stops before going back home), proper walk-able cities, proper bike-able cities, jobs organized around having workers on the roads fewer days a week to reduce traffic on the roads, maybe adjusting work hours to reduce/avoid people who drive driving into the early morning sun/evening sunset, universal health care so it doesn't matter who pays for what if an accident causes harm to people, reducing a negative effect of "car culture" so people who just need a vehicle to do work stuff will get an appropriate vehicle to their needs instead of feeling the need to have a car they can't drive safely, as a start.
If there is an actual concern about paying for accidents that happen at night, or with drivers who have long commutes, or anything else that would encourage an increase in insurance rates but none of those things happen then just give the money back to the insured.
I mean Insurances do this now, basically. But it can't ever be more than a pittance, because if everybody got all their money back, there'd be none left to actually pay for stuff when it's needed.
My point is you can nationalize and cut out profit motives and shareholders and such, but at it's heart insurances got their game down pat on this front. At some point either we all subsidize people who drive their car a lot with insurance, which doesn't sit well with me, or you get into the nitty gritty of making people pay based on statistical data, like that driving at night is more dangerous. It doesn't really matter if the single event costs the same at day or night, it's a question of how often does it happen and what happens. You might get a lot of scraped bumpers in a daytime parking lot, but one guy crashing into a building is gonna cost a lot more, even if it happens a lot less.
I mean Insurances do this now, basically. But it can’t ever be more than a pittance, because if everybody got all their money back, there’d be none left to actually pay for stuff when it’s needed.
You might get a lot of scraped bumpers in a daytime parking lot, but one guy crashing into a building is gonna cost a lot more, even if it happens a lot less.\
Which is the point of insurance. A large pool of people, most of which WONT be driving into a building, pitching in a small amount of money so that if somebody DOES hit a building the cost to the person in the accident isn't overwhelming to the people harmed. Its like, charging a person who might get cancer higher health insurance rates their entire life (regardless of their ability to pay) even if they never get cancer.
I dunno about that. We’re only about 1/4 into the year and the US auto insurance industry has made $300 billion so far. Pretty sure that’s enough to pay for everybody’s scratched bumpers, totaled hoopties, and demolished mailboxes with lots left over. And I’ve never gotten a refund but my rates increase every year.
42.000 car inflicted deaths in the USA a year, costing about a cool million a pop according to a quick google and only looking at deaths you're at 420 billion dollars a year. Just for that, nothing else. There's absolutely garguantuan amounts of money circulacting these systems.
My point being: you can take $300 billion of profits out of the system and it'll get cheaper for everyone, sure. Doesn't solve the question though, how do you come to a conclusion how much someone should pay for car insurance? Is it a flat fee?
Which is the point of insurance. A large pool of people, most of which WONT be driving into a building, pitching in a small amount of money so that if somebody DOES hit a building the cost to the person in the accident isn’t overwhelming to the people harmed. Its like, charging a person who might get cancer higher health insurance rates their entire life (regardless of their ability to pay) even if they never get cancer.
I mean that does happen, but the crucial question here seems to me the one as to whether driving a car is a universal human right, or should it be?
It would make sense to me that the rates would increase if the auto insurance industry was paying for the 1.4$ trillion cost to society but I don't think they are footing that bill.
But if things are costing more, then everybody's insurance rates should be increasing by the fractional amount that the few would need the insurance claim filled would need to get everybody as whole as an insurance system is able to. Like, you don't charge people with a higher chance of cancer or something more money for their insurance, everybody pays a bit more. Because who knows if the person with a "higher statistical chance" of getting cancer will actually get cancer or if the person who has a low chance of cancer is the one who gets cancer. If we're actually worried about paying the bills, then society takes that seriously and pays the bills.
I mean that does happen, but the crucial question here seems to me the one as to whether driving a car is a universal human right, or should it be?
In a society that was built, and doesn't seem to be changing from, a car centric commuter society any time soon. Its going to have to be a "right" until some revolution happens and fundamentally restructures the USA's society and infrastructure. Which would be super cool.
I always figured that this would be the result of those car insurance ads talking about "safe driving monitors" saving your money.
That's how you know this is nonsense: if late-night driving were really more dangerous, real insurance companies would already charge more for it.
It'd have to take a lot of other factors to overcome fewer cars = fewer collisions, too.
Unless they have the safe driving monitors, how would they know this?
I don't think this tracks on a great big statistical level. You wipe out one pedestrian because you were going too fast for the visibility conditions of night, are found partially at fault and now the insurance company has to pay out the big bucks. Never mind all the folks driving way too tired or under the influence at night. The insurance company doesn't only have to pay out when you hit another car.
A lot of people are pretty honest. You ask them how many miles are on their car and how much they drive every week and they'll give you a decently true answer. It'd be the same if you ask when they usually commute/drive. Then, if there's an accident and the company looks into it further and finds their customer was lying, they lower/refuse coverage as a policy violation.
If your car is damaged and it turns out it has three times the miles you told your insurer it had, that would probably be an issue for you, right? At minimum it would impact how much they pay you to repair/replace, and they'd probably hike your rates up going forward.
Good points on all the other hazards at night. I'm just guessing "there are fewer things to hit" outweighs everything else the vast majority of the time.
Between working as a rideshare driver and a lot of distance drives for work/travel, I really prefer driving at night. Even in major cities or busy highways you often find largely empty roads.
Yeah but that's an easily identifiable marker, just check the odometer. I guess you could theoretically get a "daylight driving only" quote for your insurance, but no one would ever take that.
I'd argue there's a basically infinite number of things to hit with your car at any given moment. Traffic also slows people down, which reduces the chance of someone careening their car into a storefront. That probably doesn't work as well at night.
which if you're not a moron: good, safe. Which, if you are, and there's a substantial amount of drivers that fit the bill: that's an invitation to go speeding recklessly since "There's no cars to hit" until you crash.
Coming at this from a bicycle perspective: riding in the daytime is high risk / low intensity, riding at night is low risk / high intensity.
One is a constant scare to get sideclipped by some asshole going 3mph faster, but that's survivable. The other one is being fine, then being dead, because I got clipped at 35mph excess because "there's no one on the roads at this time anyways"
Accident reports, hospital admittance reports, insurance claims filed (which typically go much smoother when there is a police report which is gonna have estimated time of accident and when filed).
Also, the increase in cost wasn't because the driver DID hit somebody or have an accident, it was increased because some statistic said there would be a slight increase in the possibility of an accident in certain conditions.
See what I don't get how this is materially different from any number of other statistical measures by which you pay more insurance even if you did nothing wrong. They do this by zip code, some measure of type of car or whatever and so on and so on.
And even in like a non capitalist world, barring subsidies or such, how else would you ever solve the question of insurance?
Its late and I'm probably not going to do this justice.
So I spent the better part of 10 years working nights and weekends with a 2 hour commute and never once got into an accident with another vehicle or human being. Why should my car insurance increase? I'm working minimum wage so I can't afford it, driving on roads I always drive on so there isn't going to be any surprises, and during hours when there is less traffic and zero pedestrians. Outside of some OTHER driver hitting me or a deer wanting a lift or something, it was safer to drive at night. So yea, some number cruncher somewhere says there is a .000001 percent increase in the "chance" that something happens and I get fucked? No thanks.
Also, its kinda fucked up that something like, having a family emergency, pregnant spouse, really sick kid and driving to a hospital means that not only will you get beat with hospital bills you'll get an increase in your car insurance rates "just 'cause".
Hell, spending years paying hundreds in car insurance a month without filing a claim could mean that the insurance company just straight up owes me a car.
~15 hour later addition ~
I guess it shouldnt need to be said, but I'll say it anyways. Insurance companies are for profit, all of the statistics are meant to help them pad their bottom line. A car accident happening at night probably doesn't cost them any more than a car accident during the day so there's no good reason to charge somebody more for the color of their car or if they commute to work 5 days a week.
Or you (generally, not specifically) careening into anything because open roads lead to speeding or whatever.,
Seriously though, I agree insurances are profit driven assholes. This isn't a defense of them. I'm just genuinely wondering how you would solve this any different even with the profit motive removed without subsidizing people unfairly
So the way I see it, that something "might" happen more often doesn't make it more expensive when it does happen. If somebody runs into my car at night or during the day, the cost to repair will be the same. Medical bills for being hit by a car will be the same if the driver is drunk, or distracted, or completely sober and attentive. Increasing the insurance bill arbitrarily in the way the OP refers to is just shitty. I could maybe be okay with it if the person normally drove at night doing something where an accident would be more costly as insurance rates are already adjusted according to your self reported estimate of who many miles a day/week you drive, but unless we're talking about a semi truck carrying hazardous materials an accident isn't going to cost more.
Trying to increase insurance rates as a punitive way to reduce a driver getting into an accident seems shitty as it going to do lots of financial harm to people who will never be in an accident. Its just mass punishment whose only justification is to maximize profits.
Realistic answer is to nationalize auto insurance. There's only one insurance pool so the drivers that aren't in accidents are paying for the ones that are in accidents. No profit motive required that will see insurance rates increase year on year no matter how responsible a driver you are. Treat it like Obamacare treated health insurance, where those who paid insurance premiums but didn't use the insurance would get some of their money back. If there is an actual concern about paying for accidents that happen at night, or with drivers who have long commutes, or anything else that would encourage an increase in insurance rates but none of those things happen then just give the money back to the insured.
Utopian answer is to have planned cities with proper free to use public transit to reduce traffic in cities and some on highways (I imagine some commuters just go to work and don't need to do extra stops before going back home), proper walk-able cities, proper bike-able cities, jobs organized around having workers on the roads fewer days a week to reduce traffic on the roads, maybe adjusting work hours to reduce/avoid people who drive driving into the early morning sun/evening sunset, universal health care so it doesn't matter who pays for what if an accident causes harm to people, reducing a negative effect of "car culture" so people who just need a vehicle to do work stuff will get an appropriate vehicle to their needs instead of feeling the need to have a car they can't drive safely, as a start.
I mean Insurances do this now, basically. But it can't ever be more than a pittance, because if everybody got all their money back, there'd be none left to actually pay for stuff when it's needed.
My point is you can nationalize and cut out profit motives and shareholders and such, but at it's heart insurances got their game down pat on this front. At some point either we all subsidize people who drive their car a lot with insurance, which doesn't sit well with me, or you get into the nitty gritty of making people pay based on statistical data, like that driving at night is more dangerous. It doesn't really matter if the single event costs the same at day or night, it's a question of how often does it happen and what happens. You might get a lot of scraped bumpers in a daytime parking lot, but one guy crashing into a building is gonna cost a lot more, even if it happens a lot less.
I dunno about that. We're only about 1/4 into the year and the US auto insurance industry has made $300 billion so far. Pretty sure that's enough to pay for everybody's scratched bumpers, totaled hoopties, and demolished mailboxes with lots left over. And I've never gotten a refund but my rates increase every year.
Which is the point of insurance. A large pool of people, most of which WONT be driving into a building, pitching in a small amount of money so that if somebody DOES hit a building the cost to the person in the accident isn't overwhelming to the people harmed. Its like, charging a person who might get cancer higher health insurance rates their entire life (regardless of their ability to pay) even if they never get cancer.
42.000 car inflicted deaths in the USA a year, costing about a cool million a pop according to a quick google and only looking at deaths you're at 420 billion dollars a year. Just for that, nothing else. There's absolutely garguantuan amounts of money circulacting these systems.
My point being: you can take $300 billion of profits out of the system and it'll get cheaper for everyone, sure. Doesn't solve the question though, how do you come to a conclusion how much someone should pay for car insurance? Is it a flat fee?
I mean that does happen, but the crucial question here seems to me the one as to whether driving a car is a universal human right, or should it be?
It would make sense to me that the rates would increase if the auto insurance industry was paying for the 1.4$ trillion cost to society but I don't think they are footing that bill.
But if things are costing more, then everybody's insurance rates should be increasing by the fractional amount that the few would need the insurance claim filled would need to get everybody as whole as an insurance system is able to. Like, you don't charge people with a higher chance of cancer or something more money for their insurance, everybody pays a bit more. Because who knows if the person with a "higher statistical chance" of getting cancer will actually get cancer or if the person who has a low chance of cancer is the one who gets cancer. If we're actually worried about paying the bills, then society takes that seriously and pays the bills.
In a society that was built, and doesn't seem to be changing from, a car centric commuter society any time soon. Its going to have to be a "right" until some revolution happens and fundamentally restructures the USA's society and infrastructure. Which would be super cool.