Here in (country) everyone on the left hates surrogacy with a burning passion, since it involves rich people essentially buying babies and using the bodies of poor women for their own benefit. Even the right wing parties feel sliiightly uncomfortable discussing said topics (with the exception of the extremely liberal ones who also love to act all european and modern).

Even sitcoms such as Friends or Always Sunny in Philadelphia had plotlines where this happened and they didn't pointed out how some rich fuck was taking advantage of a poor person. (Well, it was a sitcom so the poor person was either an asshole or doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, but you get the picture: whitewashing surrogacy is also bad).

So yeah, what's the deal with that? No one points out how fucked up it is???

  • booty [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    fuck your "biological drives" that's legit fascist bullshit. when there are existing children who need parents it is absolutely fucked up to create a new child just because the existing ones have the wrong genes

    • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      "Literally the entire evolution of sexual reproduction is fascist shit!! Humans aren't animals and are immune to their nature as biological beings, just be ENLIGHTENED!"

      You're an idiot fuck off

      Imagine interpreting me stating a fact as me supporting it as good

      • booty [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        you're not a wild animal, and justifying unethical bullshit with "muh biological drives" does in fact make you reactionary

        • BarnieusCalgar [he/him]
          ·
          2 years ago

          you’re not a wild animal

          Yeah, we are. We're Social Animals, and consequently significantly smarter & more complex than ones that aren't; we are more capable of self-reflection, and self-restraint as a consequence of it. Nevertheless, that is in fact still a kind of animal, and we are still going to be driven impulses to survive & to reproduce ingrained into us by the processes of evolution. You want to argue against this from a moralistic basis, which is nice, but you are also kind of just abandoning the principles of historical materialism in order to maintain that.

          justifying unethical bullshit with “muh biological drives” does in fact make you reactionary

          How would "modes of production", or the material bases of society have any relation to how we organize ourselves socially if we could just do whatever we thought was "the best idea" at any time, completely independent of our material needs or natural impulses?

          • booty [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Nevertheless, that is in fact still a kind of animal

            I'm going to assume you're here to discuss in good faith, so I'm going to ask you to reread what you quoted and then perhaps look up the definition of "wild animal." You are not, in fact, a wild animal.

            • BarnieusCalgar [he/him]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Why don't you just explain to me directly what you think the significance of that, to me somewhat pedantic & inscrutable, distinction is?

              • booty [he/him]
                ·
                2 years ago

                Come on. It's very difficult to believe that you don't understand what a wild animal is.

                What I'm saying is that you are a moral agent. You can make decisions based on what is right, not what feels good or what your instincts tell you to do.

                • BarnieusCalgar [he/him]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  What I’m saying is that you are a moral agent. You can make decisions based on what is right, not what feels good or what your instincts tell you to do.

                  "What is right" is not a fixed proposition, it's historically determined, and within a society of classes it's determined by the material interests of that class which rules over all others.

                  I can choose to do many things, but it is foolish to expect me to choose self-destruction, and unwise of me to pursue it.

                  • booty [he/him]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 years ago

                    Adopting a child as opposed to creating a new one is self-destruction???

        • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Lmao believe whatever you want

          Continue to be puzzled at people engaging in a behavior which has been unchanged for forever

          Continue thinking I'm endorsing it because you're too fucking stupid to separate the observation from your thinking I believe it's good

          • booty [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            sarcastically saying "how dare people do x" is not an endorsement of x?

            • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Im not going to blame the human species for not, as one, rising above being horny things made of meat sculpted by an absolutely blind process with only one "goal," the continued reproduction of that meat.

              That doesn't mean I think everybody SHOULD, IN AN IDEAL SOCIETY, have some fucking right to have their own kid just because. Just that Im not enough of a twat to like blame people for desires and urges that are fucking built into them.

              Like damn dawg

              • booty [he/him]
                ·
                2 years ago

                do you apply this same logic to all selfish, unethical acts taken as a result of biological urges?

      • FuckYourselfEndless [ze/hir]
        ·
        2 years ago

        No, your expression of the "biological need to reproduce" ideology is fascist. You're coming onto a supposedly marxist website and doing the "I'm actually just stating biological facts" reactionaries do when they try to do an is/ought fallacy to promote quasi-nihilist pure-id bullshit. It's dumb. Actually use your brain beyond fake buzzwords and put an onus on humans to use their brains and analysis over impulses.

        • GorbinOutOverHere [comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Actually use your brain beyond fake buzzwords and put an onus on humans to use their brains and analysis over impulses.

          Humans having the capability of doing this doesn't mean they are above and disconnected from biologically driven urges and telling yourself otherwise is fucking idealism. Don't call me a fucking reactionary just because you're too fucking stupid to understand what I'm saying, or to separate the statement that people have this drive from your idea that I'm fucking endorsing a society built on it.

          People should raise kids not related to them and not be ffucking weirdos about it, but you people who are acting absolutely befuddled over someone wanting offspring that carries their genes are even fucking weirder weirdos.

          I literally don't even think people should be allowed to be parents so fuck each and every one of you acting like I'm some fucking fascist nuclear family advocate or what the fuck ever made up image of me you fuckers want to hate today.