@kijib taking it to the libs in r/dsa

  • StoneAze [none/use name]
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    4 years ago

    Is this post talking about well-meaning libs who don't know better or twitter/actual liberals? Liberalism is a capitalist ideology, and I wonder if the actual liberals will ever side with us even if they see their institutions failing. They'll always side with the capitalist system, and will rather die with the ship. Maybe we can see radicalization from well-meaning libs. If we do want to see radicalization from libs though, we need to be their to fill their void from institutional failure with leftist/socialist solutions. A lot of them with good material conditions would also probably stay silent during a descent to fascism as well.

    It's definitely extremely hard, especially seeing the systematic change we want in the Imperial Core.

    • LatheOfLeavenedBread [none/use name]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Liberalism is capitalist ideology but most actually existing libs don't have a conscious ideology. Many can be won over, especially if they're working class libs.

      • star_wraith [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I mean I would bet like 90% of us here were libs (or worse) at one point.

      • TossedAccount [he/him]
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 years ago

        No one is born a fully-formed Marxist. Even the red-diaper babies had to be taught. The continuation of this period of heightened crisis is going to cause more working-class (and some downwardly-mobile professional) libs to confront the contradictions head-on, acknowledge the limitations of reformism, realize they can't play by the capitalists' rules, and start drawing revolutionary conclusions. Those of us who radicalized in 2016-2017 drew these conclusions with less information and less evidence against a reformist or social-democratic approach than we have now, so those who were blinded or willfully blind then may now have been made to see. We can and must be ready to point them in the correct direction, towards forging a path to revolutionary socialism and away from the traps and pitfalls of opportunism, ultraleftism, and fascism.

        • constantly_dabbing [none/use name]
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          No one is born a fully-formed Marxist

          Everyone is born a scientist, it's only through years of indoctrination that children stop asking questions and using their eyes and ears.

          Those of us who radicalized in 2016-2017

          "the traps and pitfalls of opportunism, ultraleftism"

          liberals are beyond parody lmao, you literally just learned about some a few years ago and think you're Lenin

      • StoneAze [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        yeah, that's fair. most people have no idea what their ideology is or they're politics are a mess. Well-meaning libs and working class libs who were never exposed to any other proper ideology is our best shot, at least for a decent left-wing opposition.

      • gammison [none/use name]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        Yeah no one has read the liberal thinkers that inform liberalism, they just get it through osmosis in the community. Even if you do poli sci in University, unless you study American Political Development, you get a dog shit history of liberalism too. Modern liberalism as an ideology is entirely an invention of the 30s to 50s to give a set of ideas that supported capitalism, and it threw out 100 years of established republican social analysis to do so because if you stick with it, you become socialist.