That's not at all what you've been doing in your discussions with me, not then nor now.
No one here is denying climate change, or that it's going to be bad, or even that you should take it into account when making decisions in your day to day life (i.e don't buy a house in Phoenix). All I'm saying is do what you reasonably can to prepare for reasonably possible outcomes, use what little influence you have to try to push things in a better direction, but don't make these specific lurid death fantasies (which is what they are) more than an occasional indulgence.
Thanks for describing my fears of the future as a "death fantasy" that's definitely what they are! I know you can speak with authority about this, because you have a PhD, so even though every piece of climate science I encounter tells me we're fucked, I'm glad to know it's just me fantasizing, and not at all reacting to verifiable fact.
There is not a single climate change paper out there that says "Your great Aunt Martha is going to be stabbed by an ecofascist on August 21st 2031". That is probably not going to happen! It could happen, but there's no sense in worrying about that outcome for Ole Aunt Maratha when there are so many to choose from. You're taking real, aggregate trends and predictions and using them to construct specific worries for specific people. Are you equally concerned about Aunt Martha's diet and exercise cause if she's in the US, current science indicates it's going to be heart disease and not the Rural White Citizens Brigade that does her in.
Yup that's totally what you've been saying, which is why you've completely ignoring my closing statement,
I'm not interested in the closing statement, because it's predicated on the feelings of doom the rationality of which I am questioning. If you just posted your closing thoughts I wouldn't have anything to say, but you insist on leading into them with a catalog of climate change death scenarios.
No you're just denying every specific way in which it will take shape
No, I'm just denying that you can generalize from aggregate trends to specific predictions about specific people. I don't freak out everytime I get into a car, even though in aggregate that's one of the most dangerous things I do. I do freak out every time I get on a plane though, humorously enough, because I am an irrational sillybilly. I don't spend any time fretting that my friends and family are going to get T-boned on the highway, despite the fact that TONS of people do and will get T-Boned on the highway. There's no sense in it.
I think the many many many many many aggregate horrible things that we know for a fact will happen - things you claim you do not deny will happen
Correct, lots of bad things are going to happen.
are going to aggregately make life so miserable and unbearable and increasingly hostile to human life, that most of us are going to die some unpleasant death.
Nope, haven't seen any numbers that support this specific claim with any reasonable degree of probability. 25% of humanity dying of climate change causes would be an undeniable apocalypse, and actually not that far-fetched. But even under that scenario "most of us are going to die a climate change death" would be incorrect. Because of how numbers work.
But you are of course not invalidating climate change, even though you are now presenting it as something that can be solved with a simple diet.
No, I'm contrasting your willingness to fret over long-range, far-fetched deaths for your friends and family while not giving a whit about the current leading causes of death. Surely if you're worried about your friends and family dying you'd want to focus on the stuff that is currently killing the most people and not just the Roland Emmerich stuff.
I thought you wanted to look to what we can do, and wanted to discuss what should be done to make the world a better place? Now the discussion has once again taken a turn and we are at another subject. Fascinating how you, a selfproclaimed pedant that thinks being clear in language is very important, chooses to change subject willy-nilly.
You absolutely should focus on what you can do to make the world a better place. But we've not ever left the subject of you insisting leftists should think that each of use is doomed to a climate death.
Yet another classic of climate change deniers, but you are of course not denying anything
I'm denying that it's necessary or even reasonable to live in daily fear of cars killing everyone I know despite the fact that cars do and will continue to kill tons of people. Just like climate change, which does and will continue to kill tons of people.
For the record, I mean "climate change [attributable] death" here, using a but-for notion of causation, which would include things like the social, political, and economic developments attributable to climate change.
Why would I post about diet and excersice on a thread about climate change?
You wouldn't post about how doomerish heart disease and cancer have you feeling anywhere, which is my point.
I think leftists should be realistic about what the future entails, so as to be most effective in their organizing
I agree with this, and I think that involves a degree of humility in our ability to predict precisely what the future entails. When you start saying "I'm going to die in the next 20 years due to x, y, or z", you're bending science way past it's breaking point into flights of fantasy.
I do not live in daily fear, and I do not think people should.
Good, but you also feel
Still I feel as though I am staring down the barrel of a shotgun built out of misery and shit. No one my age wants to talk politics, climate or the future, because it looks so fucking bleak - Sure we might be able to have a good life or part of a good life, but the world that is coming looks like hell on earth. When we say "things aren't going to get better" we are talking about this sentiment. It feels as though the world is ending and there is nothing to do.
You can feel that way, but there is no need for a leftist to feel that way, and I'd argue it's largely unhelpful.
Look, I've literally moved to my current location based on climate change models and have taught myself food preservation and run a community vegetable gardening to learn agricultural skills. But I also have a retirement account. I have no idea what's going to happen in the future, and certainly don't trust in my ability to predict the future to point where I'd want to let it sap my enjoyment from the present.
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There is not a single climate change paper out there that says "Your great Aunt Martha is going to be stabbed by an ecofascist on August 21st 2031". That is probably not going to happen! It could happen, but there's no sense in worrying about that outcome for Ole Aunt Maratha when there are so many to choose from. You're taking real, aggregate trends and predictions and using them to construct specific worries for specific people. Are you equally concerned about Aunt Martha's diet and exercise cause if she's in the US, current science indicates it's going to be heart disease and not the Rural White Citizens Brigade that does her in.
I'm not interested in the closing statement, because it's predicated on the feelings of doom the rationality of which I am questioning. If you just posted your closing thoughts I wouldn't have anything to say, but you insist on leading into them with a catalog of climate change death scenarios.
No, I'm just denying that you can generalize from aggregate trends to specific predictions about specific people. I don't freak out everytime I get into a car, even though in aggregate that's one of the most dangerous things I do. I do freak out every time I get on a plane though, humorously enough, because I am an irrational sillybilly. I don't spend any time fretting that my friends and family are going to get T-boned on the highway, despite the fact that TONS of people do and will get T-Boned on the highway. There's no sense in it.
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Correct, lots of bad things are going to happen.
Nope, haven't seen any numbers that support this specific claim with any reasonable degree of probability. 25% of humanity dying of climate change causes would be an undeniable apocalypse, and actually not that far-fetched. But even under that scenario "most of us are going to die a climate change death" would be incorrect. Because of how numbers work.
No, I'm contrasting your willingness to fret over long-range, far-fetched deaths for your friends and family while not giving a whit about the current leading causes of death. Surely if you're worried about your friends and family dying you'd want to focus on the stuff that is currently killing the most people and not just the Roland Emmerich stuff.
You absolutely should focus on what you can do to make the world a better place. But we've not ever left the subject of you insisting leftists should think that each of use is doomed to a climate death.
I'm denying that it's necessary or even reasonable to live in daily fear of cars killing everyone I know despite the fact that cars do and will continue to kill tons of people. Just like climate change, which does and will continue to kill tons of people.
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For the record, I mean "climate change [attributable] death" here, using a but-for notion of causation, which would include things like the social, political, and economic developments attributable to climate change.
You wouldn't post about how doomerish heart disease and cancer have you feeling anywhere, which is my point.
I agree with this, and I think that involves a degree of humility in our ability to predict precisely what the future entails. When you start saying "I'm going to die in the next 20 years due to x, y, or z", you're bending science way past it's breaking point into flights of fantasy.
Good, but you also feel
You can feel that way, but there is no need for a leftist to feel that way, and I'd argue it's largely unhelpful.
Look, I've literally moved to my current location based on climate change models and have taught myself food preservation and run a community vegetable gardening to learn agricultural skills. But I also have a retirement account. I have no idea what's going to happen in the future, and certainly don't trust in my ability to predict the future to point where I'd want to let it sap my enjoyment from the present.
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