I think that people participate consciously in social trends, not unconsciously.
There have been people I've been attracted to but have not even flirted with because they were 19 or 20, and it's important for their social development and balance to have someone to date who's close to them in age (and a mumber of other things).
There was someone I was reluctant to get involved with because they were 7 years older than me, but that was balanced out by other factors like emotional stability.
When men are dating women much younger than themselves, it means there are fewer women for men of that age to date, and it's a sort of domino effect where you end up with very young men and very old women being the most alone.
Age gaps are a very close proxy for patriarchy. Less than 4 years and you can write it off as "maybe boys mature a bit slower. Biology defines a range of possibility and a few proclivities, and the shape of society does most of the guiding. But what is culture if not the sum total of our personal selections? For a very long time, children have grown up with peer groups mostly just a few years in each direction. I think people know when something crosses outside that dynamic, and I think people know that a relationship like that is more transactional than loving.
I think a lot of people are a lot less conscious of the prevailing social and material forces of history that ultimately guide their actions than you give them credit for. I don't think people consciously think about a lot of the social trends they're participating in.
Age gaps are a very close proxy for patriarchy.
So I agree with that. I would argue that that's what I'm saying in general.
But what is culture if not the sum total of our personal selections?
I don't think that's a good materialist accounting of how culture works, is shaped, moves.
I think people know when something crosses outside that dynamic, and I think people know that a relationship like that is more transactional than loving.
My original point was essentially that patriarchal society shapes the socialization of men to view women as objects/fragile. That was to answer your question about age gaps. So I don't see why you made a snarky comment when it seems that you largely agree with me on this. I'm not defending any particular man as being unable to not be the vector of exploitation. I recognize that they are. But that doesn't really answer a question about why that's a trend that we can observe. Not to a materialist like most of the people here anyway. Maybe a liberal could be satisfied fully by writing off the actions of men as an aggregate onto individual cases of them being vectors of exploitation, which I understand to be something that is so pervasive, you'll see people that are otherwise progressive engage wholeheartedly in a misogyny deeply rooted in our violent patriachal cultural. But I don't think you're trying to "be a liberal" about it or whatever.
well...yeah. i am as well. i don't think i was really arguing that we should normalize it. it is normalized i suppose, but that's genuinely part of the reason i don't like going outside. men being men under patriarchy is a gross thing to look at.
Well do you think male biology makes them monsters? Individual choices? Careful, that sounds like conservative speak.
I think that people participate consciously in social trends, not unconsciously.
There have been people I've been attracted to but have not even flirted with because they were 19 or 20, and it's important for their social development and balance to have someone to date who's close to them in age (and a mumber of other things).
There was someone I was reluctant to get involved with because they were 7 years older than me, but that was balanced out by other factors like emotional stability.
When men are dating women much younger than themselves, it means there are fewer women for men of that age to date, and it's a sort of domino effect where you end up with very young men and very old women being the most alone.
Age gaps are a very close proxy for patriarchy. Less than 4 years and you can write it off as "maybe boys mature a bit slower. Biology defines a range of possibility and a few proclivities, and the shape of society does most of the guiding. But what is culture if not the sum total of our personal selections? For a very long time, children have grown up with peer groups mostly just a few years in each direction. I think people know when something crosses outside that dynamic, and I think people know that a relationship like that is more transactional than loving.
I think a lot of people are a lot less conscious of the prevailing social and material forces of history that ultimately guide their actions than you give them credit for. I don't think people consciously think about a lot of the social trends they're participating in.
So I agree with that. I would argue that that's what I'm saying in general.
I don't think that's a good materialist accounting of how culture works, is shaped, moves.
My original point was essentially that patriarchal society shapes the socialization of men to view women as objects/fragile. That was to answer your question about age gaps. So I don't see why you made a snarky comment when it seems that you largely agree with me on this. I'm not defending any particular man as being unable to not be the vector of exploitation. I recognize that they are. But that doesn't really answer a question about why that's a trend that we can observe. Not to a materialist like most of the people here anyway. Maybe a liberal could be satisfied fully by writing off the actions of men as an aggregate onto individual cases of them being vectors of exploitation, which I understand to be something that is so pervasive, you'll see people that are otherwise progressive engage wholeheartedly in a misogyny deeply rooted in our violent patriachal cultural. But I don't think you're trying to "be a liberal" about it or whatever.
Maybe the best way to express my position is that I'm against the normalization of it.
well...yeah. i am as well. i don't think i was really arguing that we should normalize it. it is normalized i suppose, but that's genuinely part of the reason i don't like going outside. men being men under patriarchy is a gross thing to look at.