Thats about the age gap between me and one of my two my girlfriends (the other is much closer to my age). I'm autistic so I relate better to people younger than me and am developmentally delayed "maturity" wise. And I dont have a career or family or anything so I'm not in a significantly different "life stage" than her. Ive been very careful to be sure there's no power dynamic issues between us and I'm confident there isn't.
Idk, I'm against hard and fast rules, I agree that large age gaps between adults CAN have problems I just dont think they automatically do, and I think at some point we need to respect the agency of the young adult and stop infantilizing them. My girlfriend gets seriously personally offended by these conversations.
I agree that large age gaps between adults CAN have problems I just dont think they automatically do
I would agree with this except replace "can have problems" with "have problems in the large majority of case." I think your situation is a fair exception, but doesn't represent most relationships like that
I think at some point we need to respect the agency of the young adult and stop infantilizing them. My girlfriend gets seriously personally offended by these conversations.
Well I think in normal cases with actual maturity gaps, it is inherently exploitative. And the younger person might not even realize that until later. I was 18 a little over a year ago, at first I thought I might be ready for a man or woman more mentally mature and at a different stage in life than me, but I've realized I'm definitely not (I did briefly get with an older woman actually)
I just don't think you suddenly become ready for the world on your 18th birthday. I'm not a child anymore, but I'm not an adult-adult either, still transitioning to the real world. I mean I can make a lot of choices for myself, but certain things I can recognize I don't have the capacity for yet. It's like, why exactly would someone with a regular office job for several years want to date me, the guy in college with a folder for math and biology, living with his parents, and still going through developmental milestones? It's not always black and white, there's no hard line, and there are exceptions, but I think it usually is immoral
I might be able to agree with "large majority" depending oh how large of a majority we're talking about. My point is that the potential exploitativeness of age gaps aren't an insurmountable obstacle if the older partner is just... not a shitty person and are aware of the potential exploitiveness and actively do things to counteract that. And I think points that other people have made in this thread about how a lot of the problems with age gaps are because of the shitty way relationships are structured in society and shit, also apply. I think in a world where people are socialized better and examples of relationships in media are healthier and shit, a lot of those problems go away. Also like, if patriarchy is dismantled, and capitalism of course.
It's like, why exactly would someone with a regular office job for several years want to date me, the guy in college with a folder for math and biology, living with his parents, and still going through developmental milestones?
My only thing with this argument, and I see it a lot, is that I dont think that "life stage" is the only thing two people can have in common. Like two people can connect for a lot of reasons, and the different life stages would be an obstacle but not an insurmountable one. I just think its an over simplification of human relationships to say someone with a career in an office job cant emotionally connect with a college student because of like... shared interests, or similar family backgrounds, or um, yaknow, sex and physical attraction*. Like to me the answer to "why would they" is simple as "I like them and im attracted to them". It really doesnt have to be more complicated than that.
I also think that something that is missed here is that like, millenials and zoomers have largely rejected the strict "life stage" developmental course that boomers imposed on us. Its sort of not as much of a thing anymore. A LOT of 30 year olds, not just ND ones, are still kind of just drifting through life and dont have that "different life stage" stuff people always talk about.
*its also worth noting, I think, that another thing thats often missed in this conversations is that purely sexual relationships between age gap partners have much less potential for exploitiveness than romantic ones, thats a serious side point but I wanted to bring it up because I was actually talking to a friend about it earlier today.
I just think its an over simplification of human relationships to say someone with a career in an office job cant emotionally connect with a college student because of like... shared interests, or similar family backgrounds, or um, yaknow, sex and physical attraction*. Like to me the answer to "why would they" is simple as "I like them and im attracted to them". It really doesnt have to be more complicated than that.
I mean you could replace "college student" with "high school student" and have almost the exact same (but more extreme) argument here. Like everything you said about "actively countering potential exploitativeness" I've seen someone on reddit argue for dating 15-17 y/os. I just don't think you suddenly become a genuine adult between your senior year of HS and your freshman year of college or whatever. For neurotypical people, it's a gradual process going into your mid-20's. I'm glad your relationship is healthy, but that's only because of a unique context
I also think that something that is missed here is that like, millenials and zoomers have largely rejected the strict "life stage" developmental course that boomers imposed on us. Its sort of not as much of a thing anymore. A LOT of 30 year olds, not just ND ones, are still kind of just drifting through life and dont have that "different life stage" stuff people always talk about.
Well boomers were a lot cooler about dating someone 10 years older than them when they were in college compared to zoomers now, so morals have definitely evolved in that way. Hell I'm pretty flexible compared to a lot of people I know. I mean, I saw a tiktok the other day calling 22 and 18 creepy. Some zoomers can almost be puritanical about this stuff
I think people nowadays have acknowledged you don't have to have life figured out by your late 20's/30's, and that finding what you want to do is fluid, but we've also acknowledged you almost always have more life experience by that time, which isn't just about career (I just gave that as one example). And mainly, your brain is just inherently more developed by that age except for certain ND people. Age and maturity really isn't all that fluid for the vast majority of the population, it definintely is to a certain extent, but most people's brains develop at relatively similar rates, which is why 27 and 19 (for NT people) might have a similar maturity gap and be similarly problematic as, say, 19 and 15
I guess I see where you're coming from but I still think there are nuances that are being missed. I definitly dont think that people saying what I said about 15-17 year olds are right in the slightest and I do agree that maturity isn't a switch that flips overnight. But my response to that has always been "the line needs to be drawn somewhere", and with my experience talking with younger people 18, or maybe 19, seems like a reasonable place to draw it". At some point we have to consider people adults who can make their own decisions, even if those decisions might be mistakes. (A friend of mine was recently telling me that "brain development finishes at 25" study isnt as good as people treat it as as well but idk enough about that to comment). Idk. I just consider the age gap debate to be "once you're an adult, its not my business who you love" and leave it there and dont understand why others get so into it. But I think part of that is that my autism brain cant relate to the way other people see age. Like I see people on reddit say all the time "I couldnt date someone x years younger than me, they're a kid to me" and I cant relate to it because my brain just doesnt envision it that way. I talk to younger people (18-24) all the time and they dont seem like kids to me. I just, idk, something doesnt click for me on this discussion.
the line needs to be drawn somewhere, and with my experience talking with younger people 18, or maybe 19, seems like a reasonable place to draw it ... At some point we have to consider people adults who can make their own decisions
I mean I have conflicting opinions on this. For one I think laws are different than morals, and things I find creepy I think still should still be legal. The line has to be drawn somewhere but I also think some adult rights and responsibilities should maybe be a gradual thing, although 18 is a good general number. I just find it very weird how, in most states, 16 is the age of consent, so a 16 y/o can sleep with a 40 y/o in my state, but a 20 y/o can't legally drink alcohol
Ideally under communism, I think age of consent should be more nuanced. I think maybe it could be ruled in case by case bases in relationships of 18-24 y/o's with older people. Like if a 20 y/o dates a 30 y/o and shows proof of an exploitive and manipulative dynamic to a court, that should be punishable to a certain extent, although obviously not in the same way as between adults and minors. And yeah I agree purely sex isn't the same as dating
A friend of mine was recently telling me that "brain development finishes at 25" study isnt as good as people treat it as as well but idk enough about that to comment
Well nothing's a perfect number and there's no objective hard-line for maturity, but it's a good median and probably the most common number in a bell curve afaik. It's flawed because your brain continues developing into your 30's, but the vast majority of people finish critical developments around mid 20's (and I've talked to a few people over that age that all told me that's when they started feeling like a grown-up, like some things just clicked emotionally)
Thats about the age gap between me and one of my two my girlfriends (the other is much closer to my age). I'm autistic so I relate better to people younger than me and am developmentally delayed "maturity" wise. And I dont have a career or family or anything so I'm not in a significantly different "life stage" than her. Ive been very careful to be sure there's no power dynamic issues between us and I'm confident there isn't.
Idk, I'm against hard and fast rules, I agree that large age gaps between adults CAN have problems I just dont think they automatically do, and I think at some point we need to respect the agency of the young adult and stop infantilizing them. My girlfriend gets seriously personally offended by these conversations.
I would agree with this except replace "can have problems" with "have problems in the large majority of case." I think your situation is a fair exception, but doesn't represent most relationships like that
Well I think in normal cases with actual maturity gaps, it is inherently exploitative. And the younger person might not even realize that until later. I was 18 a little over a year ago, at first I thought I might be ready for a man or woman more mentally mature and at a different stage in life than me, but I've realized I'm definitely not (I did briefly get with an older woman actually)
I just don't think you suddenly become ready for the world on your 18th birthday. I'm not a child anymore, but I'm not an adult-adult either, still transitioning to the real world. I mean I can make a lot of choices for myself, but certain things I can recognize I don't have the capacity for yet. It's like, why exactly would someone with a regular office job for several years want to date me, the guy in college with a folder for math and biology, living with his parents, and still going through developmental milestones? It's not always black and white, there's no hard line, and there are exceptions, but I think it usually is immoral
I might be able to agree with "large majority" depending oh how large of a majority we're talking about. My point is that the potential exploitativeness of age gaps aren't an insurmountable obstacle if the older partner is just... not a shitty person and are aware of the potential exploitiveness and actively do things to counteract that. And I think points that other people have made in this thread about how a lot of the problems with age gaps are because of the shitty way relationships are structured in society and shit, also apply. I think in a world where people are socialized better and examples of relationships in media are healthier and shit, a lot of those problems go away. Also like, if patriarchy is dismantled, and capitalism of course.
My only thing with this argument, and I see it a lot, is that I dont think that "life stage" is the only thing two people can have in common. Like two people can connect for a lot of reasons, and the different life stages would be an obstacle but not an insurmountable one. I just think its an over simplification of human relationships to say someone with a career in an office job cant emotionally connect with a college student because of like... shared interests, or similar family backgrounds, or um, yaknow, sex and physical attraction*. Like to me the answer to "why would they" is simple as "I like them and im attracted to them". It really doesnt have to be more complicated than that.
I also think that something that is missed here is that like, millenials and zoomers have largely rejected the strict "life stage" developmental course that boomers imposed on us. Its sort of not as much of a thing anymore. A LOT of 30 year olds, not just ND ones, are still kind of just drifting through life and dont have that "different life stage" stuff people always talk about.
*its also worth noting, I think, that another thing thats often missed in this conversations is that purely sexual relationships between age gap partners have much less potential for exploitiveness than romantic ones, thats a serious side point but I wanted to bring it up because I was actually talking to a friend about it earlier today.
I mean you could replace "college student" with "high school student" and have almost the exact same (but more extreme) argument here. Like everything you said about "actively countering potential exploitativeness" I've seen someone on reddit argue for dating 15-17 y/os. I just don't think you suddenly become a genuine adult between your senior year of HS and your freshman year of college or whatever. For neurotypical people, it's a gradual process going into your mid-20's. I'm glad your relationship is healthy, but that's only because of a unique context
Well boomers were a lot cooler about dating someone 10 years older than them when they were in college compared to zoomers now, so morals have definitely evolved in that way. Hell I'm pretty flexible compared to a lot of people I know. I mean, I saw a tiktok the other day calling 22 and 18 creepy. Some zoomers can almost be puritanical about this stuff
I think people nowadays have acknowledged you don't have to have life figured out by your late 20's/30's, and that finding what you want to do is fluid, but we've also acknowledged you almost always have more life experience by that time, which isn't just about career (I just gave that as one example). And mainly, your brain is just inherently more developed by that age except for certain ND people. Age and maturity really isn't all that fluid for the vast majority of the population, it definintely is to a certain extent, but most people's brains develop at relatively similar rates, which is why 27 and 19 (for NT people) might have a similar maturity gap and be similarly problematic as, say, 19 and 15
I guess I see where you're coming from but I still think there are nuances that are being missed. I definitly dont think that people saying what I said about 15-17 year olds are right in the slightest and I do agree that maturity isn't a switch that flips overnight. But my response to that has always been "the line needs to be drawn somewhere", and with my experience talking with younger people 18, or maybe 19, seems like a reasonable place to draw it". At some point we have to consider people adults who can make their own decisions, even if those decisions might be mistakes. (A friend of mine was recently telling me that "brain development finishes at 25" study isnt as good as people treat it as as well but idk enough about that to comment). Idk. I just consider the age gap debate to be "once you're an adult, its not my business who you love" and leave it there and dont understand why others get so into it. But I think part of that is that my autism brain cant relate to the way other people see age. Like I see people on reddit say all the time "I couldnt date someone x years younger than me, they're a kid to me" and I cant relate to it because my brain just doesnt envision it that way. I talk to younger people (18-24) all the time and they dont seem like kids to me. I just, idk, something doesnt click for me on this discussion.
I mean I have conflicting opinions on this. For one I think laws are different than morals, and things I find creepy I think still should still be legal. The line has to be drawn somewhere but I also think some adult rights and responsibilities should maybe be a gradual thing, although 18 is a good general number. I just find it very weird how, in most states, 16 is the age of consent, so a 16 y/o can sleep with a 40 y/o in my state, but a 20 y/o can't legally drink alcohol
Ideally under communism, I think age of consent should be more nuanced. I think maybe it could be ruled in case by case bases in relationships of 18-24 y/o's with older people. Like if a 20 y/o dates a 30 y/o and shows proof of an exploitive and manipulative dynamic to a court, that should be punishable to a certain extent, although obviously not in the same way as between adults and minors. And yeah I agree purely sex isn't the same as dating
Well nothing's a perfect number and there's no objective hard-line for maturity, but it's a good median and probably the most common number in a bell curve afaik. It's flawed because your brain continues developing into your 30's, but the vast majority of people finish critical developments around mid 20's (and I've talked to a few people over that age that all told me that's when they started feeling like a grown-up, like some things just clicked emotionally)