Few of the tankies here speak a lick of Mandarin, our overwhelmingly queer and prurient proclivities wouldn't be tolerated, being terminally online is met with stiff rebuke (same with more than an hour of video games a day), and the constant monitoring and social credit scores are an anathema to misfits like the lot of us here.
I've never met so many fucks who are just chompin at the bit to do 6-day, 70-hr/week factory work, because at least these capitalists aren't American.
not being built and sustained through benifiting from the imperialist world hegemony and order
lolol who do you think made all of America's toys? China could have said no, but they saw America ripping resources and toppling countries, and said, "yeah, we'll provide the labor and materials for a half century so you can keep terrorizing the world!" China's an accomplice to all this because they, too, wanted to exploit world imperialism to rise in power. It's been all hands on deck since Nixon's era.
True, but if this is the case, doesn't that make the rest of this hearsay?
Personally, I tend to take more of an anarchist line here. I'm not one to really stick my neck out for any state. That said, I'm also not one to pile on to a circle jerk when I have little first-hand knowledge. I am forced to assume that in a nominally communist nation of >1 billion people, there are Marxists, Anarchists, and revolutionaries of various nuanced stripes who are much more aware of the lay of the land than myself. *
The best thing we can do IMO is set an example and work on issues which are close to us. When we find ourselves speculating from afar about what is going on through a language barrier half a world away, we get stuck in a theoretical circle-jerk about a situation few of the participants even know the facts about. If we are concerned about the way other international leftist movements treat their vulnerable comrades, we should treat our own vulnerable comrades with love and demonstrate that it only makes us stronger. If we are concerned about the implications of state and corporate surveillance, we should build and promote the tools needed to help people overcome these incursions. If we are concerned about the exploitation of labor, we should picket the companies headquartered right in our own back yard who are profiting from it and show some international solidarity. After all, it isn't like any of these issues are limited to China.
At the end of the day, I don't think the endless debates really solve anything. It is purely "virtue signalling." Western leftists jockeying for clout in various sub-sub-cultures with no implications for the people in China positive or negative. No amount of hand-wringing in the US is going to change the material conditions of China. No amount of stanning China is going to change the material conditions in the US. The whole thing strikes me as a purely academic exercise far removed from our immediate struggles. Nobody in the American left is seriously proposing "Let's become China." We have our own unique conditions to wrestle with. We couldn't possibly become China any more than we could become the USSR, and fears about either are irrational.
As for the imperialists who are using China as a tool for fear-mongering, our response should be along the same lines. Not knee-jerk uncritical support, but a rejection of the premise. People need to be reminded that the situation in China, whatever it may be, is not the reason why we are living a miserable alienated life under late capitalism. On a surface level, the events in China can help inform our struggles, but what the masses truly need to understand is not blind faith in the PRC, not blind opposition to the PRC, but that our greatest enemies live right here, and hold power over our lives, and will remain in power as long as they have a scapegoat.
* Now if someone with first-hand experience were to offer some critical analysis, I'd happily give them a hearing, but I tend to disregard most of the stuff coming from the press, or being regurgitated on social media.
Furthermore, language is a curse. It is important for us to study other languages if we truly want to understand what is going on around the world from primary sources. Personally I have been trying to teach myself Spanish here and there to gain a better understanding of what's going on in Latin America, but Mandarin is probably just as important these days.
I’ve never met so many fucks who are just chompin at the bit to do 6-day, 70-hr/week factory work, because at least these capitalists aren’t American.
That's because Americans aren't motivated to work for anything. When the benevolent, forgiving boot of communism is pressed against their neck, most Americans will be kissing it begging to work 80 hours.
The China worship on here is a total LARP.
Few of the tankies here speak a lick of Mandarin, our overwhelmingly queer and prurient proclivities wouldn't be tolerated, being terminally online is met with stiff rebuke (same with more than an hour of video games a day), and the constant monitoring and social credit scores are an anathema to misfits like the lot of us here.
I've never met so many fucks who are just chompin at the bit to do 6-day, 70-hr/week factory work, because at least these capitalists aren't American.
deleted by creator
Oh, does it not exist? What's missing?
deleted by creator
I'm gonna rephrase OPs point in another way, stanning China is the same "harm reduction" choice as stanning Biden. You're welcome
deleted by creator
Yeah, I think I'll stick with the Howie Hawkins Nordic model. You can stick to your capitalist utopia US/China model.
deleted by creator
lolol who do you think made all of America's toys? China could have said no, but they saw America ripping resources and toppling countries, and said, "yeah, we'll provide the labor and materials for a half century so you can keep terrorizing the world!" China's an accomplice to all this because they, too, wanted to exploit world imperialism to rise in power. It's been all hands on deck since Nixon's era.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
The social credit thing isn't as real as it's made out to be.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/
True, but if this is the case, doesn't that make the rest of this hearsay?
Personally, I tend to take more of an anarchist line here. I'm not one to really stick my neck out for any state. That said, I'm also not one to pile on to a circle jerk when I have little first-hand knowledge. I am forced to assume that in a nominally communist nation of >1 billion people, there are Marxists, Anarchists, and revolutionaries of various nuanced stripes who are much more aware of the lay of the land than myself. *
The best thing we can do IMO is set an example and work on issues which are close to us. When we find ourselves speculating from afar about what is going on through a language barrier half a world away, we get stuck in a theoretical circle-jerk about a situation few of the participants even know the facts about. If we are concerned about the way other international leftist movements treat their vulnerable comrades, we should treat our own vulnerable comrades with love and demonstrate that it only makes us stronger. If we are concerned about the implications of state and corporate surveillance, we should build and promote the tools needed to help people overcome these incursions. If we are concerned about the exploitation of labor, we should picket the companies headquartered right in our own back yard who are profiting from it and show some international solidarity. After all, it isn't like any of these issues are limited to China.
At the end of the day, I don't think the endless debates really solve anything. It is purely "virtue signalling." Western leftists jockeying for clout in various sub-sub-cultures with no implications for the people in China positive or negative. No amount of hand-wringing in the US is going to change the material conditions of China. No amount of stanning China is going to change the material conditions in the US. The whole thing strikes me as a purely academic exercise far removed from our immediate struggles. Nobody in the American left is seriously proposing "Let's become China." We have our own unique conditions to wrestle with. We couldn't possibly become China any more than we could become the USSR, and fears about either are irrational.
As for the imperialists who are using China as a tool for fear-mongering, our response should be along the same lines. Not knee-jerk uncritical support, but a rejection of the premise. People need to be reminded that the situation in China, whatever it may be, is not the reason why we are living a miserable alienated life under late capitalism. On a surface level, the events in China can help inform our struggles, but what the masses truly need to understand is not blind faith in the PRC, not blind opposition to the PRC, but that our greatest enemies live right here, and hold power over our lives, and will remain in power as long as they have a scapegoat.
* Now if someone with first-hand experience were to offer some critical analysis, I'd happily give them a hearing, but I tend to disregard most of the stuff coming from the press, or being regurgitated on social media.
Furthermore, language is a curse. It is important for us to study other languages if we truly want to understand what is going on around the world from primary sources. Personally I have been trying to teach myself Spanish here and there to gain a better understanding of what's going on in Latin America, but Mandarin is probably just as important these days.
That's because Americans aren't motivated to work for anything. When the benevolent, forgiving boot of communism is pressed against their neck, most Americans will be kissing it begging to work 80 hours.