• ChaosMaterialist [he/him]
    ·
    4 months ago

    I joke that Capitalists would get the most value (figuratively and literally) from Marx, but are ideologically allergic to the reading.

    • GaveUp [she/her]
      ·
      4 months ago

      I've seen quite a few statements from big Wall St. people who have clearly read Marx

      I think a lot more capitalists understand Marxist theory than most would think

      • ChaosMaterialist [he/him]
        ·
        4 months ago

        In principle I agree, but in many ways Wall Street types are Capital's greatest slaves. Since they are dealing with other's money, they also must meet their client's literal unwitting demands. All the analysis in the world won't placate the client screaming "AI! AI! BUY AI!"

        • GaveUp [she/her]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          Big money managers (large hedge funds and asset management firms like Citadel and Blackrock) make their own decisions/strategies and clients rarely if ever have any input. It's only the small local bank branch types that listen to their clients

          The loud ones (Elon, Trump) are the morons who lucked their way into everything. A lot of quiet ones are really good at intentful exploitation

          • ChaosMaterialist [he/him]
            ·
            4 months ago

            What I mean by "unwitting demands" is the implicit "make me more money, or I will go somewhere else" that unconsciously pervades even Blackrock. They don't actually have to physically listen to understand the investment flow is going towards one market or another. They are excellent surfers, but they aren't making the waves.

            • GaveUp [she/her]
              ·
              4 months ago

              Big money makes all the waves and other big money will react to that how they want

              See: SoftBank causing a massive tech rally by buying boatloads of call options

              http://ft.com/content/75587aa6-1f1f-4e9d-b334-3ff866753fa2

        • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
          ·
          4 months ago

          in many ways Wall Street types are Capital's greatest slaves.

          They're really, really not.

          Taking specific job-related actions, which are not particularly demanding and are firmly within the confines of the job you are hired to do, which pays you very well and transfers lots of the spoils of empire to you, and which you can comfortably quit at any time with no adverse consequence, does not make you a slave.

          There are still tens of millions of actual slaves around the globe, people who are trafficked, blackmailed, restricted, or otherwise coerced into labor that they will never be paid comfortably for.

          Let's not dilute the depravity of capitalism with something that may seem vaguely affectively equivalent for a couple hours a day.

    • RNAi [he/him]
      ·
      4 months ago

      Smart vampires do read and understand marxist theory. They apply it to become more powerful ghouls.

      • ChaosMaterialist [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        Absolutely agree, but they aren't making the waves they ride. They are still subsumed in the general thoughtlessness of market forces.

        EDIT: When I think of a class that is conscious of Marx, I unironically think of modern China's CCP. When they say they are still transitioning to socialism I believe them. From my standpoint (take with huge grains of salt) is that their program is capturing Capitalism in a kind of Nuclear Reactor. Just enough class antagonisms (capitalist success, hires more workers, worker wages going up incentivize productivity investment, rinse repeat) to increase productivity while using their placement on company boards as a kind of Control Rod to prevent those antagonisms from spiraling into class conflict/warfare.

    • JoeByeThen [he/him, they/them]
      ·
      4 months ago

      Hillary Clinton gave a speech talking about how we need to seize the means of production back from China.

      • ChaosMaterialist [he/him]
        ·
        4 months ago

        Hillary changes her views more often than a chameleon that I wonder if the Lizard People conspiracy nerds are on to something.

        • JoeByeThen [he/him, they/them]
          ·
          4 months ago

          You need both a public and a private position.

          Her private positions have usually been pretty consistent.

          https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/nor-a-lender-be/