Who's gonna go to war for Joe Biden and the DNC in a civil war? If there's war in the US it'll be fascists in alliance with the "law and order" against leftists like us
The only wars which can address the scale of the crisis is a war with Iran, Russia, and China - who have begun cooperating in joint military operations and represent a united front against the US military.
The Trump administration has been agitating for war against these targets for his entire presidency. Tearing up the Iran Nuclear Deal, breaking Obama's red line on Russia, the Chinese trade war, etc.
The imperialist bourgeoisie which back Biden had a longer term strategy which had the support of the US military. They wanted to slowly internationally isolate China through economic actions such as TPP, while protecting their relationship with European allies through compromising their aggression against Russia & Iran.
The US military has stated time and time again that they cannot fight a war against the united front of Iran, China, and Russia right now. Trump represented a more volatile section of the bourgeoisie which only ever saw victory in such a war. In that way, he is more fascistic than the other imperialists. Hitler & Mussolini also assumed that only victory could await them.
But this is the contradiction that has been brewing within the US bourgeoise for awhile. A war within the US, with these two factions of bourgeoisie vying for supremacy, seems more likely than the bourgeoisie going entering a war against Iran, Russia, and China because a faction of the US bourgeoisie recognize that it is suicide for their class.
The Biden camp has been rallying the support of a large faction of the imperialist bourgeoisie in this country.
The last time civil war nearly broke out in the US - the 1933-1934 Business Plot - their soldiers were not ideologues. They were 500,000 people promised a salary.
This myth that there's peaceful coexistence amongst the bourgeoisie should've been tossed into the dustbin of history a hundred years ago. There are financial interests that need Biden to become president.
Yes, there would certainly be a number that are swayed materially. But the DNC has absolutely nothing to rally around. Their best effort against Donald Trump is Joe Biden. The DNC is not a strong enough bourgeois faction to convince other bourgeois factions to rally behind them and risk their assets and safety. As it stands, their power is entirely due to an alliance with the bourgeoisie of international scale exploitation who believe concealed class exploitation is a lower risk management of the capitalist system. The more nationally oriented bourgeoisie and those less inclined to dress up the exploitation are all rallied behind Trump and are enjoying the hell out of politics of now. The DNC faction is much less strong, since if they were to challenge the opposing faction their backing would no longer see supporting them as low risk, in fact far more risky. And in modern conditions where there is clear growth in proletariat consciousness/resistance, you can expect most of the ruling class to rally behind fascist elements.
My point is, the bourgeoisie is not stupid enough to go to war with itself in the midst of a clear growing radicalized proletariat. Their material interests will yet again unite them as it becomes clear that we are a real threat, make no mistake.
EDIT: Thinking it through a little further, what we're witnessing is a collapse of the DNC faction all-together, since material conditions (rising radicalization amonst the proles, global systems collapsing in favor of national ones, climate change likely requiring more brutalized exploitation) are going to favor the fascist order that will evolve out of Trump.
I don't think you understand that the material conditions of the bourgeoisie are forcing their infighting as well. The rate of profit has crashed to the point that consolidation is necessary within the ruling class, and all sides of the imperialist class are faced with an existential crisis.
This is the contradiction of imperialist capitalism. Imperialist infighting and class war occurring simultaneously. These are the conditions which allow for proletarian revolution. It doesn't mater how "smart" the bourgeoisie are, they are still subject to material reality like the rest of us.
I understand that the there is infighting, and I'm not arguing that when the US does collapse into civil war/revolution, there will likely be multiple warring bourgeois factions.
However, I think that we are far from seeing distinct enough contradictions between the opposing bourgeois factions, materially and ideologically. All I'm asking is, do you sense any bit of force behind the messaging of the DNC, any militancy? There are no DNC liberals calling for physical violence if Trump refuses to leave office. I just don't see it, and I could be wrong, but idk lol.
The Democratic Party has been much more willing to tolerate property destruction and street militancy than ever before. I don't feel like Leftists are recognizing this fact.
The shit that has happened in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, etc. is orders of magnitude beyond anything we've seen before, e.g. Ferguson & Baltimore.
The Democrats have been pretty relatively silent on the issue. Democratic mayors & governors have been siding with protestors on occasion. The national Democratic Party is not condemning these actions with even a tenth of the ferocity they had condemned Ferguson.
If the Democrats really wanted, these protests would have been crushed by now.
There are no DNC liberals calling for physical violence if Trump refuses to leave office. I just don’t see it, and I could be wrong, but idk lol.
They have been positioning themselves the reject the results of the election, just as Trump has.
They're silent because they see their silence as the most beneficial decision for themselves electorally. It allows them to act as "opposition" to the Trump admin and Republicans, it convinces naive leftists that they might actually support violent rebellion (lol), and it also allows them the wiggle room later down more silently suppress dissidents and diffuse protests when protests no longer benefit them electorally.
My point in all of these is that you're listening to closely to what they want you to hear. There is not a huge gap between Republicans and Democrats, we know this. Yes, they have real differences in their strategies of managing the superstructure to replicate base relations, but they are not stupid enough (yet) to gift revolutionary factions the chaos of physical warfare between two bourgeois parties, which would undermine the entire legitimacy of each of their games. Their warfare is mainly ideological and in the ownership of Capital. Neither will risk their legitimacy as a legal US entity to destroy the other.
Do you understand imperialism, the inevitable contradiction of imperialist forces leading to imperialist war, and the opportunity that creates being the only reason proletarian revolution happens? It's frustrating to se Kautskyist nonsense that the bourgeoisie can coexist peacefully throughout deep crises in capitalism. This has been disproved by reality countless times.
they are not stupid enough (yet) to gift revolutionary factions the chaos of physical warfare between two bourgeois parties, which would undermine the entire legitimacy of each of their games. Their warfare is mainly ideological and in the ownership of Capital. Neither will risk their legitimacy as a legal US entity to destroy the other.
We are in the greatest crisis of finance capitalism is history. There must be consolidation amongst the finance class, which is an existential threat to factions within the financial class.
The imperialist wars are not waged within the imperial core though, at least not amongst competing national factions. I'm confused as to how my arguments are Kautskyite in theme, I'm curious to hear what you mean by that.
I would also ask which successful socialist revolutions have occurred out of civil war between competing factions of the ruling class? Perhaps I'm ill-informed but none of them really fit (Cuba, China, USSR, Vietnam, Venezuela)
Who's gonna go to war for Joe Biden and the DNC in a civil war? If there's war in the US it'll be fascists in alliance with the "law and order" against leftists like us
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Do you think war is fought by ideologues lol
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The only wars which can address the scale of the crisis is a war with Iran, Russia, and China - who have begun cooperating in joint military operations and represent a united front against the US military.
The Trump administration has been agitating for war against these targets for his entire presidency. Tearing up the Iran Nuclear Deal, breaking Obama's red line on Russia, the Chinese trade war, etc.
The imperialist bourgeoisie which back Biden had a longer term strategy which had the support of the US military. They wanted to slowly internationally isolate China through economic actions such as TPP, while protecting their relationship with European allies through compromising their aggression against Russia & Iran.
The US military has stated time and time again that they cannot fight a war against the united front of Iran, China, and Russia right now. Trump represented a more volatile section of the bourgeoisie which only ever saw victory in such a war. In that way, he is more fascistic than the other imperialists. Hitler & Mussolini also assumed that only victory could await them.
But this is the contradiction that has been brewing within the US bourgeoise for awhile. A war within the US, with these two factions of bourgeoisie vying for supremacy, seems more likely than the bourgeoisie going entering a war against Iran, Russia, and China because a faction of the US bourgeoisie recognize that it is suicide for their class.
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The Biden camp has been rallying the support of a large faction of the imperialist bourgeoisie in this country.
The last time civil war nearly broke out in the US - the 1933-1934 Business Plot - their soldiers were not ideologues. They were 500,000 people promised a salary.
This myth that there's peaceful coexistence amongst the bourgeoisie should've been tossed into the dustbin of history a hundred years ago. There are financial interests that need Biden to become president.
Yes, there would certainly be a number that are swayed materially. But the DNC has absolutely nothing to rally around. Their best effort against Donald Trump is Joe Biden. The DNC is not a strong enough bourgeois faction to convince other bourgeois factions to rally behind them and risk their assets and safety. As it stands, their power is entirely due to an alliance with the bourgeoisie of international scale exploitation who believe concealed class exploitation is a lower risk management of the capitalist system. The more nationally oriented bourgeoisie and those less inclined to dress up the exploitation are all rallied behind Trump and are enjoying the hell out of politics of now. The DNC faction is much less strong, since if they were to challenge the opposing faction their backing would no longer see supporting them as low risk, in fact far more risky. And in modern conditions where there is clear growth in proletariat consciousness/resistance, you can expect most of the ruling class to rally behind fascist elements.
My point is, the bourgeoisie is not stupid enough to go to war with itself in the midst of a clear growing radicalized proletariat. Their material interests will yet again unite them as it becomes clear that we are a real threat, make no mistake.
EDIT: Thinking it through a little further, what we're witnessing is a collapse of the DNC faction all-together, since material conditions (rising radicalization amonst the proles, global systems collapsing in favor of national ones, climate change likely requiring more brutalized exploitation) are going to favor the fascist order that will evolve out of Trump.
I don't think you understand that the material conditions of the bourgeoisie are forcing their infighting as well. The rate of profit has crashed to the point that consolidation is necessary within the ruling class, and all sides of the imperialist class are faced with an existential crisis.
This is the contradiction of imperialist capitalism. Imperialist infighting and class war occurring simultaneously. These are the conditions which allow for proletarian revolution. It doesn't mater how "smart" the bourgeoisie are, they are still subject to material reality like the rest of us.
I understand that the there is infighting, and I'm not arguing that when the US does collapse into civil war/revolution, there will likely be multiple warring bourgeois factions.
However, I think that we are far from seeing distinct enough contradictions between the opposing bourgeois factions, materially and ideologically. All I'm asking is, do you sense any bit of force behind the messaging of the DNC, any militancy? There are no DNC liberals calling for physical violence if Trump refuses to leave office. I just don't see it, and I could be wrong, but idk lol.
The Democratic Party has been much more willing to tolerate property destruction and street militancy than ever before. I don't feel like Leftists are recognizing this fact.
The shit that has happened in Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, etc. is orders of magnitude beyond anything we've seen before, e.g. Ferguson & Baltimore.
The Democrats have been pretty relatively silent on the issue. Democratic mayors & governors have been siding with protestors on occasion. The national Democratic Party is not condemning these actions with even a tenth of the ferocity they had condemned Ferguson.
If the Democrats really wanted, these protests would have been crushed by now.
They have been positioning themselves the reject the results of the election, just as Trump has.
They're silent because they see their silence as the most beneficial decision for themselves electorally. It allows them to act as "opposition" to the Trump admin and Republicans, it convinces naive leftists that they might actually support violent rebellion (lol), and it also allows them the wiggle room later down more silently suppress dissidents and diffuse protests when protests no longer benefit them electorally.
My point in all of these is that you're listening to closely to what they want you to hear. There is not a huge gap between Republicans and Democrats, we know this. Yes, they have real differences in their strategies of managing the superstructure to replicate base relations, but they are not stupid enough (yet) to gift revolutionary factions the chaos of physical warfare between two bourgeois parties, which would undermine the entire legitimacy of each of their games. Their warfare is mainly ideological and in the ownership of Capital. Neither will risk their legitimacy as a legal US entity to destroy the other.
Do you understand imperialism, the inevitable contradiction of imperialist forces leading to imperialist war, and the opportunity that creates being the only reason proletarian revolution happens? It's frustrating to se Kautskyist nonsense that the bourgeoisie can coexist peacefully throughout deep crises in capitalism. This has been disproved by reality countless times.
We are in the greatest crisis of finance capitalism is history. There must be consolidation amongst the finance class, which is an existential threat to factions within the financial class.
The imperialist wars are not waged within the imperial core though, at least not amongst competing national factions. I'm confused as to how my arguments are Kautskyite in theme, I'm curious to hear what you mean by that.
I would also ask which successful socialist revolutions have occurred out of civil war between competing factions of the ruling class? Perhaps I'm ill-informed but none of them really fit (Cuba, China, USSR, Vietnam, Venezuela)
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They were just saying there are contradictions between factions in the bourgeoisie. Some segments thrive under Trump and some are hamstrung.