A vote for Biden is a vote for complacency in American imperialism. However, it does give us some amount of time for U.S. leftists to organize and prepare for 2024. Keep in mind that any vote not for Biden is essentially accelerationism, and that the left is not prepared for armed conflict. I believe that voting for Biden is a decent strategic decision, but ONLY IF we use his time in office to prepare for 2024.
My problem with this is that the left will still be cracked down upon but the libs will go back to scarfing state propaganda whole instead of in part. The fascist in 2024 is going to be more competent than trump. (not that we should underestimate the cheetoh) For me its a tradeoff of time to prepare vs enemy strength. Im not sure the dynamic with a neolib pres will be favorable to the left at all while the right will go even more batshit rabid than they already are. I'm seriously not convinced 2024 is going to be more advantageous time for success. Edit: not angry and your reasoning is sound, the left absolutely is not ready right now. I could be convinced with enough like confidence in organizinng under Biden. Not that org under Trump is easy either.
The only issue I have with the vote for Biden crowd is that there's a narrative forming where the people that refuse or are unable to vote for Biden literally want Trump and it paves over obvious flaws in the US democratic system. Specifically, the same voter suppression mechanisms (e.g. poll closures in key states) that acted in Biden's favors are the same ones that will now favor Trump, and I think everyone who has any sort of progressive agenda should be wary of party leadership dismissing the shortcomings of an electoral system hostile to democracy with one hand, while the other blames dissident voices as the reason for Biden's loss. There's a contradiction here, the people backing Bernie didn't even have enough leverage to put him as a primary candidate, and are now expected to singlehandedly tilt the balance in Biden's favor. That's not happening.
Some of us are demsocs here and/or have been this whole time under Trump. It might be easier to organize "under Trump", but I don't think that is simply due to him being in office, I think that is a result of Bernie coming off 2 runs and the growth of the left in general - rather than a reaction to Cheeto Mussolini ;)
The conditions would be better because:
The actual left is much bigger and more connected than under C/B/O (Clinton yada yada)
Biden would effectively be the spokesperson of the neoliberal wing of the party, and he ain't exactly "sharp". I get the counterpoint here that Harris is "smart", but people don't like her and she is WAYYY worse at bullshitting than Obama.
Having Trump in office broke every damn libs brain... they are much more susceptible to "civility politics" and "return to normalcy" stuff... thus making a leftists job that much harder (not saying it's easy without Trump.... but it is an unnecessary hurdle).
Electoralism aside, having a news cycle that lasts longer than 24 hours makes direct action more effective. (strike wave 2021?)
A few others, but it's actually 4:20 AM (lol) and I just woke up.
I only disagree because I don't see Biden being able to hold the country together for the next 4 years, even if we assume he wins overwhelmingly and Trump actually stands down from the presidency.
A vote for Biden is a vote for complacency in American imperialism. However, it does give us some amount of time for U.S. leftists to organize and prepare for 2024. Keep in mind that any vote not for Biden is essentially accelerationism, and that the left is not prepared for armed conflict. I believe that voting for Biden is a decent strategic decision, but ONLY IF we use his time in office to prepare for 2024.
My problem with this is that the left will still be cracked down upon but the libs will go back to scarfing state propaganda whole instead of in part. The fascist in 2024 is going to be more competent than trump. (not that we should underestimate the cheetoh) For me its a tradeoff of time to prepare vs enemy strength. Im not sure the dynamic with a neolib pres will be favorable to the left at all while the right will go even more batshit rabid than they already are. I'm seriously not convinced 2024 is going to be more advantageous time for success. Edit: not angry and your reasoning is sound, the left absolutely is not ready right now. I could be convinced with enough like confidence in organizinng under Biden. Not that org under Trump is easy either.
This is the only convincing argument to vote for Biden I’ve seen. Still won’t vote for him tho lol
The only issue I have with the vote for Biden crowd is that there's a narrative forming where the people that refuse or are unable to vote for Biden literally want Trump and it paves over obvious flaws in the US democratic system. Specifically, the same voter suppression mechanisms (e.g. poll closures in key states) that acted in Biden's favors are the same ones that will now favor Trump, and I think everyone who has any sort of progressive agenda should be wary of party leadership dismissing the shortcomings of an electoral system hostile to democracy with one hand, while the other blames dissident voices as the reason for Biden's loss. There's a contradiction here, the people backing Bernie didn't even have enough leverage to put him as a primary candidate, and are now expected to singlehandedly tilt the balance in Biden's favor. That's not happening.
Fully expecting the fallout from this one. School me, chapos.
meh. the whole thing is fucked beyond any redemption.
vote for biden? trump declares the election invalid fascism accelerates doom doom or in four more years Trump 2.0 gets elected in a landslide
dont vote for biden? trump remains in power fascism accelerates doom doom
I just want to slow the acceleration train down but I think the air brakes are out entirely.
there arnt even tracks under this rail car anymore
deleted by creator
Some of us are demsocs here and/or have been this whole time under Trump. It might be easier to organize "under Trump", but I don't think that is simply due to him being in office, I think that is a result of Bernie coming off 2 runs and the growth of the left in general - rather than a reaction to Cheeto Mussolini ;)
The conditions would be better because:
The actual left is much bigger and more connected than under C/B/O (Clinton yada yada)
Biden would effectively be the spokesperson of the neoliberal wing of the party, and he ain't exactly "sharp". I get the counterpoint here that Harris is "smart", but people don't like her and she is WAYYY worse at bullshitting than Obama.
Having Trump in office broke every damn libs brain... they are much more susceptible to "civility politics" and "return to normalcy" stuff... thus making a leftists job that much harder (not saying it's easy without Trump.... but it is an unnecessary hurdle).
Electoralism aside, having a news cycle that lasts longer than 24 hours makes direct action more effective. (strike wave 2021?)
A few others, but it's actually 4:20 AM (lol) and I just woke up.
deleted by creator
I only disagree because I don't see Biden being able to hold the country together for the next 4 years, even if we assume he wins overwhelmingly and Trump actually stands down from the presidency.