No, I'm not talking about post-scarcity, and I'm also not talking about the demand for factories running out. I'm saying, me and my 9 coworkers have built 10 factories, and we decide to split it up so that we all get one each. I'm now a factory owner. I find someone who wants to manage a factory and I agree to rent it out to them. They hire a bunch of workers to work in my factory, and I use the rent I'm getting to cover my living expenses, and maybe even get some extra to reinvest. My profit now comes solely from the fact that I own a MoP where other people do all the work, and if that doesn't make me a bourgeoisie then I don't know what would.
Let me take a step back here: under a socialist system, can I still be a factory owner who profits solely from the fact that I own the factory, without working in it? If so, then when we look a system where there are privately owned factories and such, then what can we look at to determine whether that system is socialist or capitalist?
I mean yeah once you're an owner, the we'd take your money. You don't get to keep the surplus value of your workers.
The factory would be owned by the company and the company would be owned by the workers. You could be a factory "owner" in the sense of the highest manager. But you likely wouldn't own the building. You would get a cut for what you help produce, but it wouldn't be a CEO amount of money. Bill Gates probably doesn't own the main Microsoft building, it belongs to Microsoft. MS is a corporate entity that has legal powers to own property like a human. And then MS is owned by Bill Gates and shareholders. Under socialism, all the workers would be the majority shareholders. No one person owns the building. A lot of basic socialism doesn't function differently than capitalism. The only real thing that changes is who's ultimately in charge and who gets the surplus value of labor.
Like all human categories, not everything fits exactly. It may be possible to have some system where private owners retain property but also workers have as much/more say than them about their property. It doesn't seem likely. It seems like you would need to abolish private property (not personal property!) or have the state just own all the factories and still let people own private homes and stuff.
But if the factory owner owns the building, and tries to rent it out, it's in his financial interest to keep capitalism intact. He wouldn't be able to make as much money under socialism. So that's why it's unlikely that owners would just be cool with letting workers take most of the money and do what they want with the buildings. But we are entering an age where new forms of organization is possible through technology. So idk. The likely thing would be that we transition and the relationship between owner/worker is abstracted even more than under capitalism.
No, I'm not talking about post-scarcity, and I'm also not talking about the demand for factories running out. I'm saying, me and my 9 coworkers have built 10 factories, and we decide to split it up so that we all get one each. I'm now a factory owner. I find someone who wants to manage a factory and I agree to rent it out to them. They hire a bunch of workers to work in my factory, and I use the rent I'm getting to cover my living expenses, and maybe even get some extra to reinvest. My profit now comes solely from the fact that I own a MoP where other people do all the work, and if that doesn't make me a bourgeoisie then I don't know what would.
Let me take a step back here: under a socialist system, can I still be a factory owner who profits solely from the fact that I own the factory, without working in it? If so, then when we look a system where there are privately owned factories and such, then what can we look at to determine whether that system is socialist or capitalist?
I mean yeah once you're an owner, the we'd take your money. You don't get to keep the surplus value of your workers.
The factory would be owned by the company and the company would be owned by the workers. You could be a factory "owner" in the sense of the highest manager. But you likely wouldn't own the building. You would get a cut for what you help produce, but it wouldn't be a CEO amount of money. Bill Gates probably doesn't own the main Microsoft building, it belongs to Microsoft. MS is a corporate entity that has legal powers to own property like a human. And then MS is owned by Bill Gates and shareholders. Under socialism, all the workers would be the majority shareholders. No one person owns the building. A lot of basic socialism doesn't function differently than capitalism. The only real thing that changes is who's ultimately in charge and who gets the surplus value of labor.
Like all human categories, not everything fits exactly. It may be possible to have some system where private owners retain property but also workers have as much/more say than them about their property. It doesn't seem likely. It seems like you would need to abolish private property (not personal property!) or have the state just own all the factories and still let people own private homes and stuff.
But if the factory owner owns the building, and tries to rent it out, it's in his financial interest to keep capitalism intact. He wouldn't be able to make as much money under socialism. So that's why it's unlikely that owners would just be cool with letting workers take most of the money and do what they want with the buildings. But we are entering an age where new forms of organization is possible through technology. So idk. The likely thing would be that we transition and the relationship between owner/worker is abstracted even more than under capitalism.