Terminally unserious understanding of history and scale, the comparison in-and-of-itself trivializes the Holocaust i-do

  • pooh [she/her]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Obligatory: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist

    I also did my own research on this awhile back, and what I found was:

    • There was no massacre in the square or anywhere else, full stop.
    • There was violence elsewhere in the city, but it wasn't as one sided as western media would likely portray and several soldiers were killed by rioters in addition to civilians killed.
    • The official numbers of dead and wounded likely at least comes close to the official data released.
    • The CIA was involved in pushing the protests, and then helped the protest leaders escape after the fact. In other words, it wasn't just ordinary Chinese people protesting.
    • There were legitimate grievances that helped fuel the protests. This also included many who were upset about China's policies around economic liberalization and the problems that created, which flies in the face of the western narrative.
    • There's room for criticism regarding how it was handled, but again there's no serious evidence that any "massacre" took place and there's also evidence of intent to avoid violence in many cases.

    Again, this is what I arrived at, but feel free to chime in if any of this is wildly wrong.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        There were a lot of different groups, especially early on. There were even some people seemingly protesting the admission of African students to Chinese universities (there was a banner reading "protect Chinese women", a slogan used at a more focused reactionary protest not long prior)

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      I think "insurgents" is more appropriate than rioters. They ambushed unarmed PLA troops with molotovs and burned them alive in their trucks and APCs, then egaged the PLA with guns.

      Afaik the CIA contingent was very small and the overwhelming majority of students were protesting the Deng government's liberalization of the market. THere was also a social component - They wanted more social freedom to date and generally be kids, and felt that the very strict traditional expectations put on them were not in line with Communist thought.

      • pooh [she/her]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Afaik the CIA contingent was very small and the overwhelming majority of students were protesting the Deng government's liberalization of the market.

        These are some of the sources for my claim about CIA involvement that I dug up on newspapers.com:

        Show

        Show

        I think you're right, but it definitely seems like the "student pro-democracy" leaders were in cahoots with the CIA. Here's more info on the CIA op to help them escape law enforcement after the fact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

        Also as an unrelated bonus, here's a great "stupid sexy Fidel" article from I think 1959 or 1960 that I also found on the newspapers site:

        Show