The smart and ambitious rise to the top, you can't raise the meek and stupid to their heights, so you must drag down the best of us down to the worst of us. That leads to problems as most people dislike the idea of being forced into mediocrity.
By it's defenition mediocraty is where most people are. This arguments only explains a little about how things came to be what they are. We are arguing to make things better.
Most people are mediocre, that's why it won't work. Those better than you or I will find their way back on top, where they belong, and those worse than us will sink to the bottom where they ought to be. You would have to support the weak and kill the strong to maintain the status quo of 'meh'. If my children were to be better than me and those around them, why would I want to leave them a world where the highest they can rise to is the same as his neighbor?
No you wouldn't. You would just have to redefine the top as contributing most instead of, as it now is, extracting most. Don't you think enormous potential for greatness is lost working long grueling hours just to survive?
You can redefine whatever you want, but value has always, and i do mean all the way back to flinging our monkey shit around always, been about whoever has the most stuff period. Collecting the most shit; guns, cars, raw cash, precious metals, food; has been the name of the game forever for every one. If you squander you potential on a 9 to 5 that's your prerogative. Get on a greyhound and stop living in a city where living wage is twice what i make. You don't get to pick your hand you just play it, make the best of you situation because no one will give you anything. I grew up with nothing but bills and lights every other month, but i made the most of it, i don't need someones handouts and i don't want them. Everything i have i clawed for with my own two hands. If someone else lacks the resolve to just fucking deal then I don't know what to say.
I don't care about how unequal everyone is, i care about my family, me, and my community in that order and i'll provide for them in that order. And upheaval of the system puts me, my family, and my community in danger from either the dissidents, the establishment, or the sure to be their gangs of criminals taking advantage of the chaos. Don't work hard work smart, if you can't get by in your current situation you gotta figure that one out on your own, because me and most people are busy working within and around the system for our own benefit.
My grandfather cared about, his family, himself, and his community. My greatgrandfather cared about his family, himself, and his community. My great great grandfather cared about his family, himself, and his community. And so on ad infinitum. The ideas of caring for yourself and your family first are as old as shit.
I don't lack empathy, i am no indifferent to the suffering of others, I just care more about providing comfort for those I love, than food for those I don't.
You are so sure of the collapse of the current system that you've turned into a monster hiding in your closet.
When the system collapses I will remain, to provide for my family, myself, and my community. Those are the pillars I hold important above all others. If I have to shoot a stranger to feed my neighbor I'll do it. But for now i will adapt to the system and i will succeed in it regardless of my start in it.
Yes YOU want to distribute it all, until someone smarter or more charismatic usurps you and does now use this wonderful all powerful holder of property to become a huge tyrannical cockwad. Remember that hitler was democratically elected. YOU are not interested in ruling, but you are making a power structure that is easy to rule from.
The election was between Hitler and Hindenburg and when Hitler lost Hindenburg basically abdicated in his favour due to pressure from the old Prussian ruling class.
He achieved power because completely unelected people, the capitalists and old prussian generals, actually ran the show and the decided Fascisim would serve their interests better. Weimar Republic's "democracy" was a farce and the communist argument is that modern liberal democracies are also a farce for similar reasons. If the majority of society is organised unequally and anti-democratically then holding elections every four years isn't actually going to achieve rule for and by the consent of the governed.
Except then your working class spilt up into groups for whatever arbitrary reason of the week it is and both start to seek to enforce their will because, let's be honest, the working class isn't just one amorphese blob of beliefs, and boom two party system back at it.
Well no they tend to devolve into wanton violence and cannibalism as the government becomes more corrupt and either unwilling or unable to meet the needs of the people.
And yet you say you were born with nothing but bills. It's a giant pyramid scheme and you, my equestrian friend, are fighting for the ones at the top at the cost of the ones at the bottom.
I could give a rats ass about the system. The system will always suck ass for someone. I will work around whatever system is in place, not hope for one willing to spoon feed me.
No you are willing to larp on Chapchat... and every once in a while commit acts of domestic terrorism. I'm not going to dedicate my life or the lives of my family to be cut short for a cause i don't beleive in to start with
You know what the real difference is between us? I get that you want to fight for your family. We all do. Except we're fighting for you and your family, too.
I think people being smart and ambitious is exactly the reason why "It's just the natural state of things" arguments are always moot.
The smart and ambitious rise to the top, you can't raise the meek and stupid to their heights, so you must drag down the best of us down to the worst of us. That leads to problems as most people dislike the idea of being forced into mediocrity.
By it's defenition mediocraty is where most people are. This arguments only explains a little about how things came to be what they are. We are arguing to make things better.
Most people are mediocre, that's why it won't work. Those better than you or I will find their way back on top, where they belong, and those worse than us will sink to the bottom where they ought to be. You would have to support the weak and kill the strong to maintain the status quo of 'meh'. If my children were to be better than me and those around them, why would I want to leave them a world where the highest they can rise to is the same as his neighbor?
No you wouldn't. You would just have to redefine the top as contributing most instead of, as it now is, extracting most. Don't you think enormous potential for greatness is lost working long grueling hours just to survive?
You can redefine whatever you want, but value has always, and i do mean all the way back to flinging our monkey shit around always, been about whoever has the most stuff period. Collecting the most shit; guns, cars, raw cash, precious metals, food; has been the name of the game forever for every one. If you squander you potential on a 9 to 5 that's your prerogative. Get on a greyhound and stop living in a city where living wage is twice what i make. You don't get to pick your hand you just play it, make the best of you situation because no one will give you anything. I grew up with nothing but bills and lights every other month, but i made the most of it, i don't need someones handouts and i don't want them. Everything i have i clawed for with my own two hands. If someone else lacks the resolve to just fucking deal then I don't know what to say.
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I don't care about how unequal everyone is, i care about my family, me, and my community in that order and i'll provide for them in that order. And upheaval of the system puts me, my family, and my community in danger from either the dissidents, the establishment, or the sure to be their gangs of criminals taking advantage of the chaos. Don't work hard work smart, if you can't get by in your current situation you gotta figure that one out on your own, because me and most people are busy working within and around the system for our own benefit.
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My grandfather cared about, his family, himself, and his community. My greatgrandfather cared about his family, himself, and his community. My great great grandfather cared about his family, himself, and his community. And so on ad infinitum. The ideas of caring for yourself and your family first are as old as shit.
I don't lack empathy, i am no indifferent to the suffering of others, I just care more about providing comfort for those I love, than food for those I don't.
You are so sure of the collapse of the current system that you've turned into a monster hiding in your closet.
When the system collapses I will remain, to provide for my family, myself, and my community. Those are the pillars I hold important above all others. If I have to shoot a stranger to feed my neighbor I'll do it. But for now i will adapt to the system and i will succeed in it regardless of my start in it.
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Yes YOU want to distribute it all, until someone smarter or more charismatic usurps you and does now use this wonderful all powerful holder of property to become a huge tyrannical cockwad. Remember that hitler was democratically elected. YOU are not interested in ruling, but you are making a power structure that is easy to rule from.
Hitler wasn't democratically elected lol.
The election was between Hitler and Hindenburg and when Hitler lost Hindenburg basically abdicated in his favour due to pressure from the old Prussian ruling class.
Fine let's be pedantic, he achieved power in a democratic system through scheming. But that's 2/3 of democracy anyway.
He achieved power because completely unelected people, the capitalists and old prussian generals, actually ran the show and the decided Fascisim would serve their interests better. Weimar Republic's "democracy" was a farce and the communist argument is that modern liberal democracies are also a farce for similar reasons. If the majority of society is organised unequally and anti-democratically then holding elections every four years isn't actually going to achieve rule for and by the consent of the governed.
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So hitler won... dispite a democratic system.
Except then your working class spilt up into groups for whatever arbitrary reason of the week it is and both start to seek to enforce their will because, let's be honest, the working class isn't just one amorphese blob of beliefs, and boom two party system back at it.
Are you trying to say that communist states naturally and inevitably devolve into two party liberal capitalist "democracys"?
Well no they tend to devolve into wanton violence and cannibalism as the government becomes more corrupt and either unwilling or unable to meet the needs of the people.
Do you think capitalist governments are better at meeting the needs of the people they govern than communist governments?
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There is no need for a lot of things, you overestimate the intelligence of the masses.
Which is it, people are too smart or people are not smart enough?
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And yet you say you were born with nothing but bills. It's a giant pyramid scheme and you, my equestrian friend, are fighting for the ones at the top at the cost of the ones at the bottom.
I am fighting for me and my family no one else, even if someone else happens to benefit from it.
Does that sound like a system worth defending to you?
I could give a rats ass about the system. The system will always suck ass for someone. I will work around whatever system is in place, not hope for one willing to spoon feed me.
So you're willing to lay down in accaptence. We are willing to fight.
No you are willing to larp on Chapchat... and every once in a while commit acts of domestic terrorism. I'm not going to dedicate my life or the lives of my family to be cut short for a cause i don't beleive in to start with
You know what the real difference is between us? I get that you want to fight for your family. We all do. Except we're fighting for you and your family, too.
No you are yelling on a messageboard about your beliefs, and i am going to work in 9 hours.
We are doing both, actually. Get some sleep, brother. You have a long day of being exploited ahaed of you.
Naw my jobs pretty nice. They team up with the local church to provide food bags for the local meth addicts way too off their shit to get a job.
Good for you.
Thanks :D
And that is exactly the problem. That in this society you have to choose between those things. It's a pyramid scheme.
Again, an argument that things "just are what they are". We are trying to make things better.