this essay makes some strong points about why people endorse absurd lies, and it isn't primarily because they're gullible
https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits. As for those anti-imperialists who don’t participate in this festival of xenophobia — and here I include myself — we have our own elitist consolation: we accept the tragedy of masses of gullible sheeple falling for cunning propaganda because having overcome it flatters our own intelligence. The more we condemn society’s stupidity, the smarter we feel in comparison.
But am I not just worsening the problem, aggravating our hopelessness, by criticizing the critics in a way that suggests that no one escapes ideological self-flattery? I don’t think so. Paradoxically, it brings us all back to a more even and possibility-rich playing field.
The prevailing populist narrative grants the People (of the West) moral innocence by attributing to them utter stupidity and naivety; I invert the equation and demand a Marxist narrative instead: Westerners are willingly complicit in crimes because they instinctively and correctly understand that they benefit as a class (as a global bourgeois proletariat) from the exploitation enabled by their military and their propaganda — organs of coercion and consent. [6] We’re not as stupid as we’re made out to be. This means that we can be reasoned with, that there is a way out.
we have our own elitist consolation: we accept the tragedy of masses of gullible sheeple falling for cunning propaganda because having overcome it flatters our own intelligence
I've thought similarly, as both political camps have the same thought-terminating cliches. Dem voters are taught to trust in their intellectual and moral superiority, R voters are taught the same if ya boil it down far enough. Wending my way through those thought terminators is the one skill i can say ive improved on, but they're easy pitfalls and i gotta look out.
Westerners are willingly complicit in crimes because they instinctively and correctly understand that they benefit as a class (as a global bourgeois proletariat) from the exploitation enabled by their military and their propaganda
Confession time: in my teenaged/20’d libdom (ok longer but let me lie, please let me lie to myself the truth is embarrassing) i recall coming to a decision with myself that "the US was definitely bad, but it was to my benefit and that it was a privilege i didn't ask for but definitely benefitted from. My responsibility as an American was to at least acknowledge this.
I don't remember the details but i do know i was able to live with this truth without thinking more on it for years.
How did i begin to rethink this empty non-position? To out myself again it was simply the increasingly obvious disdain forme, personally. I couldn't give enough of a fuck to truly start disengaging from the imperial prop appatatus until i got slapped right in the kisser with the truth, over and over that i didn't benefit from it either (not to say i don't bear w/me).
The benefits we receive from the boug arent intentional, but accidents in the process of being remedied.
I had to be shown this. And it being personal was just so much more appalling.
It was ugly, selfish emotions like pride and anger that initially pushed me left, not doing what is right. i would like to think that ive become better since then. I would like to believe im not just a commie out of opportunism. I can only promise myself to keep squeezin those pimples when i find em.
When i wanna change a libs mind, not just dunk on them for reminding me how much i hate my old self, i take care to remember who i was and to an extent still am, and just poke holes here and there in their unspoken faith that they are getting a piece, that the US does it for them, that the government cares whether they live or die.
Cuz using your quoted Marxist explanation isnt wrong, im proof. but how do you use this knowledge to create an effective path to enlightenment? I must remember my own, ugly path. If i can remember that, and how long it was, and how important those baby steps between 'imperialism hurts the world' to 'imperialism hurts me' and how, while venal, how effective that difference was in my mind, maybe i can throw breadcrumbs until they take that step too.
Cuz yeah baby, i want to harness that anger. How can i get them to take that step? I can't accuse, it's ineffective. Now they're mad and defensive (and im a hypocrite).
Anger doesn't help me think critically by any metric but it sure as hell stops me from listening ta who I'm angry with... and man if i can just get a wedge in between their faith in the prop...if people can just see theyre being looked down upon and by who. It is a way out, i just don't know how to apply it.
Yea theres an element of this essay that has always felt wrong, which is what you said about how the proletariat doesnt benefit from imperialism. Every problem the working class has is directly tied to the existence of imperialism, and although there are upper stratas of the working class that get more of a buy in, its only relative to the massive towering wealth of the monopoly capitalists who are still sucking the blood out of society and humanity itself while completely immiserating the lives of the lower strata even in the US. On a long enough timeline, all upper strata workers and petty bourgeois either join an ever shrinking monopoly capitalist class or join the continually growing proletariat and theres only one solution to this that isnt the common immiseration of humanity as a whole.
People choose to believe because there is no communist alternative between the two parties. Building that communist alternative is the only solution.
This is interesting but to make sure I'm understanding it correctly, does the last paragraph posit that the people that are representative of the shitpost cliches actually understand and are complicit in the "wink-wink" nature of the lies being passed off as legitimate information because they understand that they benefit from the goal achieved?
Like, this guy is aware of the completely baseless and disingenuous nature of their fearless god/leader and is just putting on a show?
Sure, just change some of the words around cuz your pictured mr clownshoes probs doesn't even know what proletariat means
Trumpers are willingly complicit in his lies because they instinctively and correctly understand that they benefit as a class (as a white person) from the exploitation enabled by systemic racism and it's propaganda — organs of coercion and consent.
You joke but also you nailed it. It's a dangerous mistake to think the opposition is stupid. The things that truly separate us from mr. clownshoes there are curiosity and self-crit.
the post is a shitpost making fun.
this essay makes some strong points about why people endorse absurd lies, and it isn't primarily because they're gullible
https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
This resonated with me.
I've thought similarly, as both political camps have the same thought-terminating cliches. Dem voters are taught to trust in their intellectual and moral superiority, R voters are taught the same if ya boil it down far enough. Wending my way through those thought terminators is the one skill i can say ive improved on, but they're easy pitfalls and i gotta look out.
Confession time: in my teenaged/20’d libdom (ok longer but let me lie, please let me lie to myself the truth is embarrassing) i recall coming to a decision with myself that "the US was definitely bad, but it was to my benefit and that it was a privilege i didn't ask for but definitely benefitted from. My responsibility as an American was to at least acknowledge this.
I don't remember the details but i do know i was able to live with this truth without thinking more on it for years.
How did i begin to rethink this empty non-position? To out myself again it was simply the increasingly obvious disdain for me, personally. I couldn't give enough of a fuck to truly start disengaging from the imperial prop appatatus until i got slapped right in the kisser with the truth, over and over that i didn't benefit from it either (not to say i don't bear w/me).
The benefits we receive from the boug arent intentional, but accidents in the process of being remedied.
I had to be shown this. And it being personal was just so much more appalling.
It was ugly, selfish emotions like pride and anger that initially pushed me left, not doing what is right. i would like to think that ive become better since then. I would like to believe im not just a commie out of opportunism. I can only promise myself to keep squeezin those pimples when i find em.
When i wanna change a libs mind, not just dunk on them for reminding me how much i hate my old self, i take care to remember who i was and to an extent still am, and just poke holes here and there in their unspoken faith that they are getting a piece, that the US does it for them, that the government cares whether they live or die.
Cuz using your quoted Marxist explanation isnt wrong, im proof. but how do you use this knowledge to create an effective path to enlightenment? I must remember my own, ugly path. If i can remember that, and how long it was, and how important those baby steps between 'imperialism hurts the world' to 'imperialism hurts me' and how, while venal, how effective that difference was in my mind, maybe i can throw breadcrumbs until they take that step too.
Cuz yeah baby, i want to harness that anger. How can i get them to take that step? I can't accuse, it's ineffective. Now they're mad and defensive (and im a hypocrite).
Anger doesn't help me think critically by any metric but it sure as hell stops me from listening ta who I'm angry with... and man if i can just get a wedge in between their faith in the prop...if people can just see theyre being looked down upon and by who. It is a way out, i just don't know how to apply it.
Yea theres an element of this essay that has always felt wrong, which is what you said about how the proletariat doesnt benefit from imperialism. Every problem the working class has is directly tied to the existence of imperialism, and although there are upper stratas of the working class that get more of a buy in, its only relative to the massive towering wealth of the monopoly capitalists who are still sucking the blood out of society and humanity itself while completely immiserating the lives of the lower strata even in the US. On a long enough timeline, all upper strata workers and petty bourgeois either join an ever shrinking monopoly capitalist class or join the continually growing proletariat and theres only one solution to this that isnt the common immiseration of humanity as a whole.
People choose to believe because there is no communist alternative between the two parties. Building that communist alternative is the only solution.
This is interesting but to make sure I'm understanding it correctly, does the last paragraph posit that the people that are representative of the shitpost cliches actually understand and are complicit in the "wink-wink" nature of the lies being passed off as legitimate information because they understand that they benefit from the goal achieved?
Like, this guy is aware of the completely baseless and disingenuous nature of their fearless god/leader and is just putting on a show?
Sure, just change some of the words around cuz your pictured mr clownshoes probs doesn't even know what proletariat means
(Closes dictionary) What morons.
You joke but also you nailed it. It's a dangerous mistake to think the opposition is stupid. The things that truly separate us from mr. clownshoes there are curiosity and self-crit.
Hmm...
self-crit for sure.