Realized the other day that I've been subjected to years and years of propaganda about Russia and Putin. Even correcting for it a bit in my head, it still doesn't seem like an amazing place to live. But is it better or worse for the average Joe?
My impression is that its 2nd world. Lots of modern technology, but shitty and like 20 years behind. Not progressive in terms of LGBT or women's rights. Definitely not a democracy and basically run by plutocrats.
Anyone have personal experience there?
Apparently Russian GDP per capita collapsed intensely after the Soviet Union collapsed, and only got to the 1990 level in the last couple years, but today that skews way more toward rich assholes at the top.
True, but isn't that applicable almost globally now? Like the local economies of hinterlands in the US and UK got destroyed, but GDP trudged through as it passed around the wealthy.
Yeah for sure- pointing out why the old folks are probably right about the 70's and 80's.
Nah, that's an exaggeration. It's true for Ukraine and Georgia, but Russia surpassed the 1990 level by 2007 and didn't even fall below it during the 2008 crisis. (Ukraine's a true kleptocracy whose leaders destroyed their own industry, and Georgia had like 3 civil wars and went from privileged Soviet republic to a poor country up in the mountains.) Russia's economy is not breaking any records, but it's trucking along fine despite sanctions.
Ah i guess i looked at a bad graph
EDIT:
That's correct but when I look at this chart, it seems like after 2007 it didn't grow much, and when you consider inequality I'm sure there are a lot of people who are worse off now:
Edit: removed link
The chart you link is exactly the same as the one I link, but with less detail because the axis starts at 0 and you can't hover over the individual figures. Since 2007 there was the world recession and then the sanctions recession after 2014, so yeah, a lot less growth than between 1998 and 2008, but still growth. Inequality hasn't changed significantly in the same time period. People feel stagnation relative to the 2000s, but not things getting worse or feeling like the 90s again.
Ah sorry I missed your link. But yes, what I'm comparing is the 80's to now, not the 90's - it surpassed the 80's in 2007 and then has been flat- and it's not that far above the 80's.
So if there's a worse distribution now than there was in the 80's, then there could be a lot of people worse off. We'd have to look at more detailed data though I suppose.
Oh, comparing how well off people were in the 80s vs. today is an interesting question, one that GDP per capita doesn't really capture. People have better electronics/appliances/furniture/windows, but access to public services is worse - essentially you have to pay for better education and healthcare, even within the public system, and there's no job guarantee. Pensions are tiny. There're also things like more crime, more racism, more threat of war/terrorism.
Everyone used to feel secure about securing the basic necessities of life. Now everyone's nervous about it.