Cannot sleep to save myself so-
WHAT'S UP EVERYBODY, Wii U gang here again 
I put some mGBA on my Wii U so I could try Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis on it. If you haven't read my Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together post, go make a meal and spend a few hours, y'know just for context. Lmao.
Easily the single biggest disappointment with the game is the Disappearance of Wait Turn. WT is easily one of the coolest things about Ogre Tactics and the rolling turn order is super fucking awesome, hardcore as shit, it's punches you gotta roll with but you can also influence it. Knight of Lodis just kinda gives up... it has Fire Emblem style PLAYERPHASE/ENEMYPHASE alternating turns where you can move any unit in whatever order. This is lame but not a dealbreaker.
The UI and interactions/controls have also been necessarily crunched in the move from Super Famicom to GBA. Some of it is beneficial, like just A/B is easier than the original game's mix of A to select and B/X to cancel... but also movement is a little clunky now, and you cannot attack then move, only move then attack.
Surprisingly enough though basically everything else has been retained. It's still the same type of turn-based tactical, unit-positioning-critical, height-advantage-heavy, physics-inflected battles from Let Us Cling Together, with none of the ugly messy changes the remakes made. The four "freely customisable" equip slots are still there, so you can load down a unit with whatever, hawkmen are still beloved, you can still do automated Training to assuage any grinding, there are "emblems" in place of the later Classmarks, but not all classes require them so there is still some degree of free switching. There is an entirely new set of magic but it works more like LUCT than the remakes' magic. It is cast in a very similar mold to LUCT.
The game is gorgeous; it reuses some assets from (the village houses) and has similar looking sprites to the Super Famicom game, (comically the main guy's overworld/combat sprite looks like Dark Knight Lans) but the 240×160 resolution hasn't caused any damage to Quest's superb sense of visual design. All the art is beautiful, the character sprites still have exactly as much animation and expression complexity as in Let Us Cling Together, and the cutscenes are pretty much on par. It's technically very close to LUCT.
That also (I guess) means it kinda runs like shit; I think Quest Corp was not very good at coding (or bug testing? optimisation?) because it seems like most of their games have bugs or technical problems. Knight of Lodis mostly has obnoxiously long 'CPU IS THINKING...' wait hangs before enemy movement, and animations that refresh at inconsistent speeds. Not very performant.
The story also isn't up to much: it's kinda like the Korean War if Worst Korea hated the US. You play as a USMC recruit (Knight of Lodis) sent to the island of Ovis, long an imperial Lodis "protectorate", to "peace-keep" in a brewing conflict where the northern half of the island (sovereign, indepentent, ostensibly bad) seems to be agitating and skirmishing. Allegedly. I wonder how long it will take the protagonist to merc his commanding officer. The writing is a bit more obvious than LUCT but oh well honestly.
I was really incredibly buttmad at almost every gameplay change they made to Wheel of Fortune and Reborn, but that's mostly because they were mucking around with an objectively perfect and completely flawless game. When it comes to a different game though, I think it's fine to play with the mechanice somewhat. While the omission of Wait Turn sucks, I'm honestly pretty pleased with how much of LUCT is retained within The Knight of Lodis. Given the limitations of the GBA, it's a pretty darn good rendition. Kinda cute. Playing Ogre makes me happy as fuck, I was getting my ass beat by the enemy's archers and having to fight my way uphill and levelling my lil dudes up a bunch, oh man I just fuckin love Tactics Ogre so much. How wonderful of Yasumi Matsuno and the game to make two of them!!! Literal Tactics Ogre 2: The Pre-Squeakwuel!!!!!
Sorry Thracia 776, you got mogged by Ogre Tactics' little bro. Next time, promise.
Great game. I liked LUCT better tho.
Also, you're not allowed to post about it until you finish it
How dare u fucken say this to me!! I had to holler my excitement, I hated FF Tactics a lot so this is a positive development!!Also u played both?
Get four hours into the game and it demands, requires that you grind. Of course they removed training battles so you have to go take forever getting your shit kicked in by the forest creatures, genius game.
That's literally it, I mean I take issue with the class system, how healing works, miniscule squad size and battlefields, absurd high-damage "kamikaze" magic, and a couple other things, but frankly making a game with such long tedious battles a grindfest is a major Go Fuck Yourself move
fwiw I am the only known human who thinks this.Hm, yeah, I can see that, but I feel like I spent more time in training battles in LUCT than random battles in FFT.
The thing about FFT is that some of the classes / exploits are way too strong, so I feel like the grinding stops once you hit a certain level. The problem, then, is that the battles become trivial
I can automate training battles though, like training is an awkward cludge, but I'm at least happy to let Ogre play itself for an hour to even everyone's levels. Having to do real battles where characters can die in FFT is excruciating and takes forever. Plus the only serious grindy chokepoint in LUCT imo is Fiduc castle...
Waow so it's intolerably annoying and frustrating until some point where it becomes needless to even think about it? That's a fuckin Big Brain Play by Matsuno and the gang. How did the same team make both games???
Waow so it's intolerably annoying and frustrating
Hah, sorry, I just don't see it. Fwiw I like LUCT better than FFT, but I think the class system in FFT is super fun to engage with and it's way more fun to customize a class with the variety of skills you unlock than in LUCT where classes are fairly static. There's way more things to do than just hit the enemy. I also find ogre more frustrating because it's so much fucking more difficult (although, that actually why I like it more, too!)
I didn't get real far to see it, classes do seem better than the Ogre Remake classes but gear being classlocked is awful.
Lmao yeah I don't need tactics games to beat my ass with the yaoi paddle but too easy is kinda... blegh...
I just started the PC remake after playing Knight of Lodis first and I'm the complete opposite where I liked KoL's turn system and move -> attack only more lmao.
There are some spoilers I could give you but I don't know how far you are in the game. There are two main paths that deviate from one another with four endings. A few of the characters can only be obtained by going one path or if another isn't already in your party. Coincidentally on my first playthrough like 20 years ago, I got the canonical ending.
Have you found a snapdragon yet? There's so many cool things you can do with them! If it's your first playthrough, I'd recommend just using them on whatever. You'll be tempted to max out the character's level first, but bear in mind the story missions don't scale. Enemies for the final missions are only around level 35 or so. Those missions will be anticlimactic if you're level 50 and start one-shotting motherfuckers with your priest.
The emblem system is something I wish more games did. It's such a cooler way to do classes/jobs, not to mention trying to get all of them for each character.
Once you play the game through blind, I'd recommend looking up everything (all character locations, important item locations, how to get each emblem, etc.) and do a powergame run. This is where the majority of my play time with the game comes from. Having turn one teleport someone behind the enemy leader and drop a summon is hilarious.
I guess most people would prefer something more nornal, but in Reborn the turn order is right on bottom the screen...
There are two main paths that deviate from one another with four endings.
Just like LUCT fr fr... Beautiful...... I'm literally like three battles in, I just had to shout about this, sorry lolOkay cool, duly noted! Lv35 is also right where LUCT's levels end so that's neat. Are emblems cool in this game? They seem okay I guess but I kind of hate Classmarks to death in the remakes. LUCT on SFC/SAT/PSX would let you swap classes freely and do stuff like train a Siren as a Cleric for bonus Int, I miss it...
One play blind and then lookups is usually my strat, yeah. I actually found a solid amount of stuff (guy with the rifle, Deneb's shop, shipwreck) in LUCT on my own so I'm very excited. Uuuuuugh I love Tactics Ogre pls help...
I guess most people would prefer something more nornal, but in Reborn the turn order is right on bottom the screen.
No I mean mechanically, I like how both teams take their entire turn all at once. You have to think out your opponent's whole turn so you get everyone in position, while being able to do combos uninterrupted during your turn. Alternating actions still requires you to think ahead, but you can't set up combo chains because you get interrupted.
Are emblems cool in this game? They seem okay I guess but I kind of hate Classmarks to death in the remakes. LUCT on SFC/SAT/PSX would let you swap classes freely and do stuff like train a Siren as a Cleric for bonus Int, I miss it...
So emblems are like achievements for each character. You can swap classes freely once you meet the requirements, although some alignments will prevent you from changing class. One of the more common things to happen is when your priest gets an emblem for killing something like 10 people. This lowers their alignment and will prevent them from turning back into a priest if they change class.
Training as a siren/cleric/priest, then turning into a lich or witch is a really common strategy. Except you can also get the sniper emblem for bonus agility.
Emblems are just neat, tho. They give your characters some character. Having Blood Reign (kill 25 enemies) and Mark of the Elite (win a mission with 2 or fewer characters against a party of 8 or more), for example, tells a story all on their own.
you can't set up combo chains because you get interrupted.
I guess so, I kinda like that while enemy units can get in the way, if you watch turn order carefully you can still coordinate. With all guys moving at once I can basically dogpile and immobilise any unit...
Ohhh okay awesome, so not like classmarks at all!!!! Very cool!!!!!! That's great frankly, I was so worried they had introduced the "
you have to get the one ranger classmark from the hellgate whatever" shit from the remakes. Thank fuck, frankly. Emblem gang. Ogre Emblem...
I'm going to have to try this! It sounds like a good game to get into Tactics Ogre if I'm used to certain aspects of Fire Emblem.
Didn't think of it like that but yeah tbh. Fwiw I also think classic FE players will adapt to LUCT pretty well but Lodis is cute and fun too.
What do you recommend between the original and Reborn? What does Reborn do differently?
So much is different in Reborn.
Aside from the massive presentational overhaul and script rewrite/expansion, (which are pretty good and very faithful to the original) Reborn has more fixed classes that are harder to swap between, with classmarks required for switching, equipment has been changed to two hand slots, a body slot, a gear slot and a head slot, more forgiving permadeath, there's no training battles anymore, there's a level cap, recruitment is now really annoying, there are Skills characters need to learn like in FF Tactics which can include recruitment, counterattacks, finishers and more. All of the magic has been torn out and replaced, damage calculation is different, blocking/guarding/accuracy is different, arrow trajectory is different, magic range and trajectory is way different, movement values are different, all the gear is new, all the items are new, classes have been totally revised, they basically took the entire guts out of the original Tactics Ogre and built an entirely different, more FFT-like game in its stead.
It's not awful, and Reborn in particular makes some choice cuts that make it objectively superior to the PSP Wheel of Fortune version, but both remakes narrow Tactics Ogre into a more standard game, even for adding so much to it. Tactics Ogre, the original, is a shockingly free-form and varied game, especially given the hardware it's on, and the class experimentation and cool stuff you can do is so cool and the remakes are just like "nah. what if it was Final Fantasy Tictacs tho"
I've been half-cooking a post about all this but Idk. Tactics Ogre LUCT, The Original, can be a viciously difficult and hard to approach game but it's also fun and a great challenge for anyone with even moderate tactics game experience tbh. My beloved.
Aah, well, that sucks... it's not really a remaster then or even a remake, it's more of a reimagining. I doubt I have the patience to play through the original as it was envisioned back then though lol, I can get why they simplified it for the new generation of gamers.
Pretty much, it follows the broad framework but the game plays way different.
Removing training battles is probably the most destructive change, I got literally stonewalled in Chapter 2 on PSP cause my guys sucked too much.
Also the PSP version complicated things DRAMATICALLY by introducing like five times the gear and about 200 skills per unit or something, it's absurd and sucks. It's such a mess that it's actually MORE complex than the original, the amount of time spent micromanaging in menus is tripled basically.
