- cross-posted to:
- anarchism
You wouldn't pirate a medicine, would you?
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As a European, this looks insane to me.
Capitalism working as intended though, undercutting the competition and all that.
I’m a process chemist. I do this sort of thing for a living.
These guys don’t even know why what they’re suggesting is so dangerous. Do not do any of this.
I'm a quality chemist. I test the API's that process chemists make to be sure they're right. Yeah, reactions don't always proceed as intended. These guys do understand the risks, and are only trying to provide an option. Here in the US the insurance companies are perfectly willing to let us die because funding expensive treatment hurts their bottom line. Unless you're independently wealthy, a small scale reactor at home may become the only option a person has available. Definitely risky, but why not take the chance when corporate America has determined you're not valuable enough to save?
I’m not disputing the reasoning behind why this is important. But “it is important” does not imply that their solution is the right one.
There really should be better options, but it's where this country is currently at, where some home chemistry is something people would have to consider. You're right, it's dangerous and certainly has a lot of risks. With some background in it myself and access to resources that the general public doesn't have, I would still be hesitant to try something I'd cooked up in the basement at home. But, I'm also not at the point where I'm going to die from a treatable but unaffordable disease.
There is exactly one easiest option: be like the rest of the civilized world and ban consumer marketing of medicine. HUGE amounts of the prices of drugs are just down to TV ads. “Ask your doctor about…” is horse shit, let your doctor decide what prescription drugs you need. And fire the cocaine-riddled, law-breaking marketing departments that soak up so much money.
But the right solution is inconstitutional and anti-corporate! Even socialist and maybe even "woke"! So, this is the option TPTB are leaving us with.
Don't like it? The second most useful thing to do compared to this is to ready your guillotine. That is the language they understand.
No, just follow the money. It’s all going into marketing. Ban marketing (like the rest of the world!) and prices drop overnight.
Yeah that was my first thought too. While I kind of get the spirit of it, in practice this is so absurdly dangerous IMO. Even if someone has the best possible intentions, there are so many things that could go wrong with this, especially if you include things like long-term effects that aren't immediately apparent, or interactions with other drugs, especially if you're taking other home-made pills with potentially unknown ingredients. While it can be frustrating to hear about a promising new medicine that won't be available for years, there's a reason why they spend so long testing these things.
IMO the better (but much more difficult) solution is reforming the medical industry so that it's easier for people to see a doctor and actually afford to get medicine. I'm not usually a fan of big government stuff, but medicine is one of those things that just needs to be kept under supervision I think.
I think these guys might be able to hack through the process and get stuff done and think getting other people to follow them will be trivial as well. But just because they didn't mess up, doesn't mean other people won't. A large majority might end up hurting themselves if they follow in their route.
That’s the thing. They have no way of even knowing if they messed up! I’m not even sure the way they could be messing up is a thing they know they should be worried about.
I'm a dumbass. I don't do this sort of thing for a living. Do you think it will ever be as safe as properly manufactured and prescribed drugs?
No. Never. It takes whole teams of people to get it right. (Even then, they sometimes get it wrong.)
I would if I could!
I will say, there's something scary about crafting your own medicine, I'd expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it'd be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.
The things they write in the article are amazing, people can make their own life savine cure to hepatitis C for about 70 USD for their whole home made treatment, that just works? It seems too good to be true without any caveats.
Oh and, final thought, “Four Thieves Collective”? They really don't beat around the bush. I like that
The CLR (the reactor to create the medicine) costs about US$300-500 to make according to their website. Then there's actually figuring out the software. They don't sell recipes,as it were, so there's time involved as well.
I've been poking around their site tonight after I saw this posted to another community. It's worth looking at, imho.
I'd expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it'd be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.
You're not wrong—all of 4TVC's work is extremely dangerous. Not as dangerous as you'd think, though. And, compared to living a life crushed by debilitating disease or debt, do those risks outweigh the outcome? Probably not.
It is easy to make if you have the know how and some equipment, also if it is already known what you need to make. For example, aspirin is known structurally (unless I am mistaken), so if you have the chemistry know-how and equipment, you can make your own.
However the tricky part is to get it as a safe medicine to take, that you do not have impurities that could be dangerous, toxic. You will need to be able to make quality and safety checks like that. Which I am not sure how easy that really is.
I firmly think this would be a boon for many people; owning one of these is likely a lifeline that even small town physicians could utilize to dispense drugs freely or cheaply to patients in need.
This is something that I think small-town pharmacies could use to create compounds in cases of drug shortages. I think tools and programs and small labs like what are discussed in the article are a positive force for good; and that they should be not only allowed, but encouraged, for many drugs that are expensive, unavailable to someone in need and can be readily synthesized safely with a basic college level of chemistry training by someone in a pharmacy.
I think the potential risks and downsides are small right now; and I think more of it should be encouraged gently so that we can find out quickly what the flaws and limitations are so that we can put regulatory guardrails around it so that people do not harm themselves.
Ok this is pretty cool, I just don't know if I would trust it yet. I was actually thinking about the concept a bit ago, that I really don't know what I'm taking if my doctor prescribes something to me... I do really like the concept, though.
You know what? Yeah I wouldn't pirate a medicine. They got me this time.
I would not trust that the pills he was throwing out to the crowd were legit. But if an independent third party could verify the drug, why not.
Also, I am not suffering from anything that is too expensive to fix. Maybe if I was desperate and not rich, I'd have a different opinion.
Intellectual property is theft. Is there a WikiLeaks for medicine? WikiMeds perhaps?
States are absolved of patent law, so I keep hoping the west coast will make a compact where each state makes a major drug for their state health care plans and they share across.
I have a friend in Portugal who uses semaglutide that's compounded by a local pharmacy for about 35euros a month. I, in Canada still pay $230/month for Ozempic. For $120/month I could take a 2.5mg dose similar to Wegovy which in Canada right now is $400ish
Its the same drug, just no prefilled pen. All these pharmacies that offer it in Europe aren't accessible from North America without a vpn, and then once accessible refuse to ship to Canada.
You wouldn’t pirate a medicine, would you?
You wouldnt' pirate a human thought would you? The basis of this entire sub, that one pile of neurons deserves for life the rights to a computation.
I just wrote it because it rhymed with the now memed 2004 anti piracy announcement You wouldn't download a car that was rightfully criticized.
Good, don't lol
Lots of people do know a lot about these things and were previously hindered by an inability to manufacture the drugs themselves.
There are plenty of docs and chemists who would willingly do this underground because they actually want to help people.
