Thank you so much for showing me that not every liberal I meet here will be ignorant and self-righteous. I can no longer say that has been the totality of my experience with them. I now have hope that my next encounter will be just as positive as this one was.
Go fucking fuck yourself you fucking piece of shit. Talking about other people's sOcIaL uNdeRsTandIng while you're fucking misgendering people AND JUSTIFYING IT AS IF YOU'RE A FUCKING VICTIM once you're called on it. You're rancid scum and I hope we get fucking defederated so we don't have to deal with filth like you.
I have to smash through the wall like Hbomberguy right now
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"DO YOU FUCK DUDES? AnomalousBit?"
Do you go around telling other people that you fuck dudes? What do other people assume you mean when you say that you fuck dudes?
You could have just been like "Yeah you're right, sorry I didn't mean to misgender you." but instead you doubled down on being a transphobic dickhead and literally proved my point about liberals being shitbags in the process.
No, it wouldn't be a problem if he said he fucked dudes. The implication though is that "dudes" is a gendered term. The complaint is that she was misgendered by someone who then doubled down on the misgendering. Her statement was not homophobic.
In my experience, sexual inferences are the fastest way to educate someone who doesn't see a word as being gendered, but I can see how what they said could be read as using gay sexual activity in a negative way to someone not reading this thread and skimmed over the rest of the text in that reply.
Playing dumb is used by bigots as a shield to continue their bigotry unimpeded. Not allowing any room for them to play dumb is the only way to reach those kind of people.
What they are conveying is that "dude" is clearly not a gender-neutral term, as a straight guy would agree that they "fuck people", weird as the phrasing is, but not that they "fuck dudes." It demonstrates that they themselves don't perceive the social understanding of the term "dude" as gender neutral, not that "fucking dudes" is bad. It could also be used to debate a lesbian by the same token.
Maybe if you lived in any of the countries you disparage all day long
Most of the users on Hexbear are American and a decent number of the remainder are Brits and Aussies. Our criticisms do not come from having never received the privilege of witnessing these countries being shit first-hand, as much as you might like to pretend it's only those dirty foreigners not understanding your national glory.
So the foreigner part is self-evident, and I think the "second-world", "potato vodka," etc. covers the "dirty" pretty plainly. I don't know why I'm even saying this, because basically what I'm doing is just teaching you to dogwhistle more effectively, but on the other hand this post is on lemmy, so hopefully I'm helping to point this out to other people so they will be more aware of these things when you and your ilk take your next crack at it.
I don't know a single trans person that views dude as a gender neutral term, the only people spouting that nonsense are transphobic cis dudes like you who make up excuses to misgender and harass us. Go die in a house fire, reactionary cissie shit.
Real talk from a very trans-supportive communist: is this universal? I definitely grew up in a conservative environment but definitely was under the impression that I and the trans people I am close to all thought dude was a term of endearment when used amongst friends, including women and enbys. I likely overuse the term from thinking I would be a skater after playing Tony hawk's pro skater and being into hiking/climbing/camping culture, but is this a universal thing among trans people you know?
Not defending the other person, libs very often hide behind the argument once called out, and I'd never call you "dude," or pretty much anyone not my direct friend, but I just wanna make sure I'm not hurting people unnecessarily without knowing it. Maybe it's the "being friends" part that makes the difference, and I hope so. Otherwise I got some trans-comrades to apologize to
Adding here after thinking more, I guess I usually use it to refer to a non-specific thing, like saying "ah dude, that's cool" and shit like that. Like saying "oh man." Is this related??? Need some help here lol
Real talk from a very trans-supportive communist: is this universal?
I find it to be at least extremely common, both in English-speaking spaces online and in German-speaking trans communities online and IRL (i'm German). Ultimately it's a matter of preference, there will be trans people who disagree, but there definitely are a lot of us who take offense. Same goes for terms like guy and especially for bro / bruh etc., or for German terms like Typ or Alter (in this context roughly comparable to guy or dude) which are generally at least masc-leaning. I'd definitely take offense to all of these, but sure, there are exceptions.
Still, these are exceptions, and more importantly, what we see here is a perfect example of how not to deal with such a situation: When somebody calls you out on misgendering, the only sensible response is to edit the post in question and to apologize. If you do that, it's normally no big deal, everybody moves on with their day. And it takes a few seconds to edit a post and a few more to reply "sorry, i've edited this" while it can quickly take hours to start an argument over this. Yet i see over and over again that liberals in particular are incapable of showing that amount of basic human decency. Instead, they have to assert their privilege to define what we're allowed to find offensive, talk down to us and act as if they're the one ones who've been hurt because we've called their feeling of superiority and infallibility into doubt by saying they've made a mistake. That's where it gets transphobic even if the misgendering was unintentional, that's where it gets patronizing as well.
Fully agree with the description. Fuck that lib. Keep tearing them apart til they apologize and edit.
In Dutch-speaking communities i still hear the American phrases a lot, but the equivalents in dutch rarely. But in international groups oriented towards my hobbies, dude is still used a good bit. But I'll just stay alert, just wanted to hear a bit more from a trans-comrade who most definitely would speak frankly to me (I understand that in-person call-outs can sometimes be difficult for such "small" things). Gonna only use it as a phrase of exclamation among friends that know me well I think and continue checking up regularly on my comrades.
Just to be clear, i'm not saying "don't say dude", the term in itself is perfectly fine. Just saying it's not unusual at all that trans people find it not to be gender neutral and particularly that the response in that case shouldn't be to start an argument where you assert a right to label trans people in ways that have clearly and already hurt them. It's the latter that made me go from "oof, that person should edit this post" to "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds".
Generally considering that "dude" is a somewhat masculine word, so using it to refer to someone with she/her pronouns in her username (implying that she doesn't want to be referred to with male terms) without knowing if they're okay with that word just makes you look like a piece of shit.
Look, you started hot in this thread but tired after a few comments. They adjusted, you didn't, and you got rocked; it happens. Hit the showers and we'll get after it early tomorrow with some film.
It's not my government, and neither is Russia, but you aren't fooling anyone by disparaging someone by identifying them as living in China (or Russia, since the EU recently decided again that it's Not White Enough).
Your comments elsewhere say the quiet part a little louder, like the bit about "potato vodka". Do you think I've never seen a motte-and-bailey argument before? It's clear what you mean when you use a term like "second world" as a pejorative.
I mean, America is also majority white. If you made quips about curry when discussing someone that you allege to be stationed in India, I think you can tell that that would be called racist. Same if you talked about a Chinese national eating rice noodles or dumplings or take your pick. You are adding in elements of racial coding that are unnecessary and it doesn't look like an accident.
i'm sure there has to be a better option in your society than grinding it out in a shitty troll farm.
Sadly, no. Here in the United States of America, there is no opportunity for those outside the ruling class. Hence I spend my days posting away in hexbear.net's volunteer troll farm.
Oh man can you imagine modern commie blocks with modern materials being built in cities instead the same dogshit five over ones? Owning a commie block with your commie neighbors, getting together and deciding to paint whatever, or knock some walls out and make an indoor community garden...
Do you think a troll farm would really spend that much time talking to itself? Are you so arrogant that you believe they'd do that level of kabuki theater in order to impress you?
In what way is making a kinda-funny Marxism joke indicative of being a bot? The previous comment to mine references Dialectics, because the convo is just "A, B, sassy A, sassy B. I merely tied in Historical Materialism, Marx's grand Dialectical theory, to overplay the goofy small back and forth.
Are you sure you're not a bot? Do you have free will?
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Thank you so much for showing me that not every liberal I meet here will be ignorant and self-righteous. I can no longer say that has been the totality of my experience with them. I now have hope that my next encounter will be just as positive as this one was.
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Does my username make me look like a dude to you? Why are liberals so fucking awful? It's only ever you. Nobody in the left does this.
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I live in the US and disparage it all day. That's productive.
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Go fucking fuck yourself you fucking piece of shit. Talking about other people's sOcIaL uNdeRsTandIng while you're fucking misgendering people AND JUSTIFYING IT AS IF YOU'RE A FUCKING VICTIM once you're called on it. You're rancid scum and I hope we get fucking defederated so we don't have to deal with filth like you.
My lack of social understanding? Gender neutral?
I have to smash through the wall like Hbomberguy right now
Do you go around telling other people that you fuck dudes? What do other people assume you mean when you say that you fuck dudes?
You could have just been like "Yeah you're right, sorry I didn't mean to misgender you." but instead you doubled down on being a transphobic dickhead and literally proved my point about liberals being shitbags in the process.
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No, it wouldn't be a problem if he said he fucked dudes. The implication though is that "dudes" is a gendered term. The complaint is that she was misgendered by someone who then doubled down on the misgendering. Her statement was not homophobic.
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The only argument she's making is that dudes is a gendered term, and him doubling down after the fact is bullshit
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In my experience, sexual inferences are the fastest way to educate someone who doesn't see a word as being gendered, but I can see how what they said could be read as using gay sexual activity in a negative way to someone not reading this thread and skimmed over the rest of the text in that reply.
Playing dumb is used by bigots as a shield to continue their bigotry unimpeded. Not allowing any room for them to play dumb is the only way to reach those kind of people.
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What she is saying is that she is not a dude
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What they are conveying is that "dude" is clearly not a gender-neutral term, as a straight guy would agree that they "fuck people", weird as the phrasing is, but not that they "fuck dudes." It demonstrates that they themselves don't perceive the social understanding of the term "dude" as gender neutral, not that "fucking dudes" is bad. It could also be used to debate a lesbian by the same token.
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Fair enough, have a good day 💚
She literally has her pronouns in her display name mf, it's not that hard
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https://youtu.be/h2TL0GHSue0
Most of the users on Hexbear are American and a decent number of the remainder are Brits and Aussies. Our criticisms do not come from having never received the privilege of witnessing these countries being shit first-hand, as much as you might like to pretend it's only those dirty foreigners not understanding your national glory.
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So the foreigner part is self-evident, and I think the "second-world", "potato vodka," etc. covers the "dirty" pretty plainly. I don't know why I'm even saying this, because basically what I'm doing is just teaching you to dogwhistle more effectively, but on the other hand this post is on lemmy, so hopefully I'm helping to point this out to other people so they will be more aware of these things when you and your ilk take your next crack at it.
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You also call them troll farmers, but the racial coding just keeps finding its way in somehow. Funny, that.
Yeah, we get it, you're a paranoid national chauvinist on top of being a transphobic asshole, that was already obvious.
I don't know a single trans person that views dude as a gender neutral term, the only people spouting that nonsense are transphobic cis dudes like you who make up excuses to misgender and harass us. Go die in a house fire, reactionary cissie shit.
Real talk from a very trans-supportive communist: is this universal? I definitely grew up in a conservative environment but definitely was under the impression that I and the trans people I am close to all thought dude was a term of endearment when used amongst friends, including women and enbys. I likely overuse the term from thinking I would be a skater after playing Tony hawk's pro skater and being into hiking/climbing/camping culture, but is this a universal thing among trans people you know?
Not defending the other person, libs very often hide behind the argument once called out, and I'd never call you "dude," or pretty much anyone not my direct friend, but I just wanna make sure I'm not hurting people unnecessarily without knowing it. Maybe it's the "being friends" part that makes the difference, and I hope so. Otherwise I got some trans-comrades to apologize to
Adding here after thinking more, I guess I usually use it to refer to a non-specific thing, like saying "ah dude, that's cool" and shit like that. Like saying "oh man." Is this related??? Need some help here lol
I find it to be at least extremely common, both in English-speaking spaces online and in German-speaking trans communities online and IRL (i'm German). Ultimately it's a matter of preference, there will be trans people who disagree, but there definitely are a lot of us who take offense. Same goes for terms like guy and especially for bro / bruh etc., or for German terms like Typ or Alter (in this context roughly comparable to guy or dude) which are generally at least masc-leaning. I'd definitely take offense to all of these, but sure, there are exceptions.
Still, these are exceptions, and more importantly, what we see here is a perfect example of how not to deal with such a situation: When somebody calls you out on misgendering, the only sensible response is to edit the post in question and to apologize. If you do that, it's normally no big deal, everybody moves on with their day. And it takes a few seconds to edit a post and a few more to reply "sorry, i've edited this" while it can quickly take hours to start an argument over this. Yet i see over and over again that liberals in particular are incapable of showing that amount of basic human decency. Instead, they have to assert their privilege to define what we're allowed to find offensive, talk down to us and act as if they're the one ones who've been hurt because we've called their feeling of superiority and infallibility into doubt by saying they've made a mistake. That's where it gets transphobic even if the misgendering was unintentional, that's where it gets patronizing as well.
Fully agree with the description. Fuck that lib. Keep tearing them apart til they apologize and edit.
In Dutch-speaking communities i still hear the American phrases a lot, but the equivalents in dutch rarely. But in international groups oriented towards my hobbies, dude is still used a good bit. But I'll just stay alert, just wanted to hear a bit more from a trans-comrade who most definitely would speak frankly to me (I understand that in-person call-outs can sometimes be difficult for such "small" things). Gonna only use it as a phrase of exclamation among friends that know me well I think and continue checking up regularly on my comrades.
Just to be clear, i'm not saying "don't say dude", the term in itself is perfectly fine. Just saying it's not unusual at all that trans people find it not to be gender neutral and particularly that the response in that case shouldn't be to start an argument where you assert a right to label trans people in ways that have clearly and already hurt them. It's the latter that made me go from "oof, that person should edit this post" to "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds".
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Yeah, people weren't aware of transphobic language 14 years ago, i know that, i've lived through that time.
"Dude" can be gender neutral but given the context of it in your response it really fucking looks like a microaggression against her for being trans
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Generally considering that "dude" is a somewhat masculine word, so using it to refer to someone with she/her pronouns in her username (implying that she doesn't want to be referred to with male terms) without knowing if they're okay with that word just makes you look like a piece of shit.
Look, you started hot in this thread but tired after a few comments. They adjusted, you didn't, and you got rocked; it happens. Hit the showers and we'll get after it early tomorrow with some film.
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dunk on a lib and a racist bleeds
He's a transphobe, too. They all are.
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Earlier in the same comment:
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It's not my government, and neither is Russia, but you aren't fooling anyone by disparaging someone by identifying them as living in China (or Russia, since the EU recently decided again that it's Not White Enough).
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Your comments elsewhere say the quiet part a little louder, like the bit about "potato vodka". Do you think I've never seen a motte-and-bailey argument before? It's clear what you mean when you use a term like "second world" as a pejorative.
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Gaslighting is when someone disagrees with you
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I mean, America is also majority white. If you made quips about curry when discussing someone that you allege to be stationed in India, I think you can tell that that would be called racist. Same if you talked about a Chinese national eating rice noodles or dumplings or take your pick. You are adding in elements of racial coding that are unnecessary and it doesn't look like an accident.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is being paid by China or Russia"
lol. lmao, even.
I am SHOCKED to see xenophobia, racism, and chauvinism from a liberal anti-communist
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Hey buddy, you didn't reply to my earlier post about Guaido getting owned. Running away from your emotions won't make them go away. Cmon, let's sit down and have a chat about how you feel. Does that make you mad?
I always say that the second a liberal is criticised for being insensitive that they start sounding like a boomer Republican arguing on Facebook.
Thank you for proving that to the entire thread here.
You are one pathetic loser!
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We are the pigs with whom you wrestle in the mud
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Sadly, no. Here in the United States of America, there is no opportunity for those outside the ruling class. Hence I spend my days posting away in hexbear.net's volunteer troll farm.
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Here let me help you with some 20th century posting technology far in advance of your instance:
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You are driving yourself insane and it's equal parts sad and funny
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What do you see as the end result of convincing yourself that everyone here is a bot (or running bots, you go back and forth) and is out to get you?
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"Am I out of touch? No! It must be that these people are paid to know things!"
You're evidently paid on a per-comment basis tho
It's not about whether one wins or loses. It's about you losing.
Man i wish we all lived in commie blocks...
Oh man can you imagine modern commie blocks with modern materials being built in cities instead the same dogshit five over ones? Owning a commie block with your commie neighbors, getting together and deciding to paint whatever, or knock some walls out and make an indoor community garden...
How Guaido doing these days lmao Does it make you mad the "elected" president is never going to actually be president lol
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Your entire history on Lemmy is malding over Guaido getting BTFO. How mad does that make you feel? Don't be shy.
Lol this asshole is a Guaido truther?
Check their history. Langley is definitely not sending their best.
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Here's Guaido getting owned by randos Does that make you upset?
Do you think a troll farm would really spend that much time talking to itself? Are you so arrogant that you believe they'd do that level of kabuki theater in order to impress you?
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Gaslighting is when someone disagrees
Is there a base case or do the layers of irony go on to infinity?
Maybe this is just dialectics, although a little snarky
Truly the pinnacle of Historical Materialism.
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They were making a joke . . . ?
"Starting shit about obvious jokes" is like Stage 8 terminal malding
I pray for a swift and decisive end to their illness
In what way is making a kinda-funny Marxism joke indicative of being a bot? The previous comment to mine references Dialectics, because the convo is just "A, B, sassy A, sassy B. I merely tied in Historical Materialism, Marx's grand Dialectical theory, to overplay the goofy small back and forth.
Are you sure you're not a bot? Do you have free will?
Dialectics require sublation
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It was a joke actually, I'm not that invested in this thread lol