The fucking cryptofash misappropriated the term "deep state" when it was introduced to them by people who were familiar with the term as it should actually be used: similar to the original Turkish context, the true US deep state would likely be defined to include mostly-unelected bureaucrats and military brass unaccountable to any changes in the democratic will of the people, especially those in federal natsec-blob agencies like the CIA, DHS, and Pentagon which overwhelmingly dictate the actual grisly execution of US foreign policy, but arguably also including unelected leaders of the Federal Reserve who dictate monetary policy based on market signals and mostly independently from democratic pressure, and the corporate-funded talking heads influencing public opinion through the AP, NPR, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, etc.
There is a real US deep state, but the MAGA chuds and Qanon rubes decided to selectively redefine it to only include the deep state members they don't like and introduced false positives like Democrats in Congress and the White House so as to make the term almost fucking useless for political analysis or discourse. The only part they consistently get right is identifying the MSM "fifth columnists" (esp. CIA-adjacent ones like CNN's Jake Tapper) as members or extensions of the deep state.
So now when people try to point out the real deep state, they sound like delusional chuds to most liberals at first glance. It's very annoying.
Thanks for clarifying this. I was originally only familiar with the Turkish context of the term and it has irked me for a while to see chuds appropriate it.
The thing is while the Trukp people appropriated the term for their own delusional purposes, there's a kernel of truth to these claims because the national security apparatus has been trying to soft coup him via Russiagate and other constant leaking since his term began
Well said. What's definitely an interesting proposition (changing the bureaucracy is incredibly hard and the bureaucracy resists) becomes "Obama built GLADIO in the FBI!1!".
And it's a good debate to have, because "how responsive should the bureaucracy be to successive governments?" is a perfectly fair question. Do we really want one that whiplashes every 4-8 years? Probably not. But we do want one that's under the control of the people we elected!
And now that well is poisoned. Because TDS means that all of a sudden libs inherently trust every government agency (ok, maybe not DHS, but I bet they will if Biden wins).
Well, yeah, but in a similar way, even though right wingers call legitimate news "fake news", fake news is still a term for completely fabricated stories on facebook. Same with deep state, I've heard it used before 2016 to mean "unelected but powerful government workers" essentially
Some of the things at the bottom were literally done by one of the things at the top, unless I'm the idiot who doesn't know what "deep state" means
The fucking cryptofash misappropriated the term "deep state" when it was introduced to them by people who were familiar with the term as it should actually be used: similar to the original Turkish context, the true US deep state would likely be defined to include mostly-unelected bureaucrats and military brass unaccountable to any changes in the democratic will of the people, especially those in federal natsec-blob agencies like the CIA, DHS, and Pentagon which overwhelmingly dictate the actual grisly execution of US foreign policy, but arguably also including unelected leaders of the Federal Reserve who dictate monetary policy based on market signals and mostly independently from democratic pressure, and the corporate-funded talking heads influencing public opinion through the AP, NPR, NYT, WaPo, WSJ, etc.
There is a real US deep state, but the MAGA chuds and Qanon rubes decided to selectively redefine it to only include the deep state members they don't like and introduced false positives like Democrats in Congress and the White House so as to make the term almost fucking useless for political analysis or discourse. The only part they consistently get right is identifying the MSM "fifth columnists" (esp. CIA-adjacent ones like CNN's Jake Tapper) as members or extensions of the deep state.
So now when people try to point out the real deep state, they sound like delusional chuds to most liberals at first glance. It's very annoying.
Thanks for clarifying this. I was originally only familiar with the Turkish context of the term and it has irked me for a while to see chuds appropriate it.
The thing is while the Trukp people appropriated the term for their own delusional purposes, there's a kernel of truth to these claims because the national security apparatus has been trying to soft coup him via Russiagate and other constant leaking since his term began
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4827052/user-clip-god-deep-state
Well said. What's definitely an interesting proposition (changing the bureaucracy is incredibly hard and the bureaucracy resists) becomes "Obama built GLADIO in the FBI!1!".
And it's a good debate to have, because "how responsive should the bureaucracy be to successive governments?" is a perfectly fair question. Do we really want one that whiplashes every 4-8 years? Probably not. But we do want one that's under the control of the people we elected!
And now that well is poisoned. Because TDS means that all of a sudden libs inherently trust every government agency (ok, maybe not DHS, but I bet they will if Biden wins).
I think Deep State in the modern conspiratorial sense always refers to like, Obama, Clinton, and Comey working with CNN and MSNBC to subvert Trump.
Well, yeah, but in a similar way, even though right wingers call legitimate news "fake news", fake news is still a term for completely fabricated stories on facebook. Same with deep state, I've heard it used before 2016 to mean "unelected but powerful government workers" essentially