Am I reading something different than everyone else here? Because I completely understand what she's trying to get at.
Leftists are dismissing the song because its early interest was astroturfed. This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, because it has actual interest among people now, because of the astroturfing. How do we combat this problem? Just because we dismiss the song as astroturfed right-wing propaganda doesn't mean the listeners are. The right is changing minds with content like this, and it's problematic for us.
"It can't be viral because it was astroturfed" isn't a helpful assessment, because the song absolutely is viral now. It even came up in my feed on a music community. I clicked it because it looked like it would be up my alley based on the title and thumbnail (I enjoy folk music that shits on capitalists) and I only realized it was that song once I got to the line about people "milking welfare." The astroturfing may have raised the song up the hill, but at a certain point it had enough views and such to carry it based on momentum.
What I think the author is trying to say is that the right is succeeding here, and largely leftist media fails to make the same impact. Probably because we don't have the same connections that allow astroturfing that the people who pushed this song do. But that does leave a meaningful question: how do we reverse this trend and get people interested in leftist topics through arts and culture? How do we promote the material we have already created?
I'm reading the same thing. I think people are upset because they want her to be wrong, but the reality is that if there were to be a revolution in the US, Germany, or UK today, it would undoubtedly result in an openly and unrestrained fascist government. The reason leftism isn't going viral has nothing to do with astroturfing and everything to do with a lack of an effective propaganda strategy given current material conditions. It's possible that there IS no such strategy to be found. In this case, CJ is demanding something impossible, but the correct response is not to say she doesn't get it but rather to actually do the work of attempting to develop a strategy or a theory. I think people are far too hopeful that Western leftists can actually get something revolutionary done.
I think a simple part of the problem is that fascism "has it easy" when it comes to messaging: they get to scapegoat easy targets, and appeal to populism. We do not have the luxury of such easy-to-consume messaging. This is also why our memes get made fun of for being wordy or hard to understand, whereas right-wing memes can be easily distilled to "haha minority bad."
We're also fighting against decades of entrenched liberal propaganda in each individual we try to reach, whereas fascists get to build upon that foundation.
I don't disagree with you, mostly. I just think the conclusion from this has to be that the current outcome of any collapse or revolution will be open and bloody fascism. If we managed to change this and get better at propaganda, maybe we could move the needle to point more towards balkanization of the USA and some regions will be openly fascist and others will be openly communist. But right now, we suck at making things happen and the evidence is what you cite in your comment.
Yes, I understand that. What I am trying to say is that they are dismissing the song's impact as if every view was from a bot, when they are not. Real people are listening to and talking about it.
Who’s saying that? Yeah, there’s no doubt people are listening to the song, but c’mon 9.5 million views in 5 days? I’m sorry, most of those views are 100 percent astroturfed.
You just did, now. I'm saying that we know that not all of those are bot views simply because of the number of people talking about the song, and we shouldn't dismiss its impact because it is absolutely having an impact.
I'm with you. Sometimes it seems like we're content to sit back and be proven right by the failures of capitalism, but if we want to actually build anything that lasts then we need to engage instead of sticking to our insular pockets. I do think federation has been a step in the right direction for that reason.
Am I reading something different than everyone else here? Because I completely understand what she's trying to get at.
Leftists are dismissing the song because its early interest was astroturfed. This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, because it has actual interest among people now, because of the astroturfing. How do we combat this problem? Just because we dismiss the song as astroturfed right-wing propaganda doesn't mean the listeners are. The right is changing minds with content like this, and it's problematic for us.
"It can't be viral because it was astroturfed" isn't a helpful assessment, because the song absolutely is viral now. It even came up in my feed on a music community. I clicked it because it looked like it would be up my alley based on the title and thumbnail (I enjoy folk music that shits on capitalists) and I only realized it was that song once I got to the line about people "milking welfare." The astroturfing may have raised the song up the hill, but at a certain point it had enough views and such to carry it based on momentum.
What I think the author is trying to say is that the right is succeeding here, and largely leftist media fails to make the same impact. Probably because we don't have the same connections that allow astroturfing that the people who pushed this song do. But that does leave a meaningful question: how do we reverse this trend and get people interested in leftist topics through arts and culture? How do we promote the material we have already created?
Edit: Oh no, I just heard it on the radio.
I'm reading the same thing. I think people are upset because they want her to be wrong, but the reality is that if there were to be a revolution in the US, Germany, or UK today, it would undoubtedly result in an openly and unrestrained fascist government. The reason leftism isn't going viral has nothing to do with astroturfing and everything to do with a lack of an effective propaganda strategy given current material conditions. It's possible that there IS no such strategy to be found. In this case, CJ is demanding something impossible, but the correct response is not to say she doesn't get it but rather to actually do the work of attempting to develop a strategy or a theory. I think people are far too hopeful that Western leftists can actually get something revolutionary done.
I think a simple part of the problem is that fascism "has it easy" when it comes to messaging: they get to scapegoat easy targets, and appeal to populism. We do not have the luxury of such easy-to-consume messaging. This is also why our memes get made fun of for being wordy or hard to understand, whereas right-wing memes can be easily distilled to "haha minority bad."
We're also fighting against decades of entrenched liberal propaganda in each individual we try to reach, whereas fascists get to build upon that foundation.
I don't disagree with you, mostly. I just think the conclusion from this has to be that the current outcome of any collapse or revolution will be open and bloody fascism. If we managed to change this and get better at propaganda, maybe we could move the needle to point more towards balkanization of the USA and some regions will be openly fascist and others will be openly communist. But right now, we suck at making things happen and the evidence is what you cite in your comment.
No, leftists dismissed the song before the astroturfing was discovered. After it was found out, it just reinforced what people thought to begin with.
Yes, I understand that. What I am trying to say is that they are dismissing the song's impact as if every view was from a bot, when they are not. Real people are listening to and talking about it.
Who’s saying that? Yeah, there’s no doubt people are listening to the song, but c’mon 9.5 million views in 5 days? I’m sorry, most of those views are 100 percent astroturfed.
You just did, now. I'm saying that we know that not all of those are bot views simply because of the number of people talking about the song, and we shouldn't dismiss its impact because it is absolutely having an impact.
You'd think, as a bunch of paid CCP sock puppets and shills, we'd have some better astroturfing of our own.
I'm with you. Sometimes it seems like we're content to sit back and be proven right by the failures of capitalism, but if we want to actually build anything that lasts then we need to engage instead of sticking to our insular pockets. I do think federation has been a step in the right direction for that reason.