I'm a socialist you fucking loser. Shut the fuck up and think before assuming I'm a fascist for disagreeing with you.
The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
Did I say you were a fascist? I said that anti-communism leaves the door open to fascists. And I said that ideologically vulgar anti-communism is the underpinning of fascism. These are both true. If you make your community about anti-communism, fascists will come. And fascism gains power when the capitalist class is in crisis and chooses a less profitable closed society that keeps the left in check rather than see their power realistically challenged.
You can laugh all you want at easily researched facts but they're still true. China. I'll edit when I find one for the USSR that isn't a lecture or a book, but in the meantime reflect on how they went from feudal farmers to the first people in space within a generation Oh. And they did it without the stolen wealth of entire continents in the southern hemisphere.
Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
There's your mask off, peanut gallery. This is literal holocaust denial you're seeing. You opened the door to fascists and they're among you. You're defederating on the ideological grounds of anti-communism with the stated motivation of making it more of a safe place for queer voices. You're inviting in the kind of people who want us dead.
There it is! Yes they saw Germany as a threat to their existence because Hitler wanted to genocide them. The west saw the Nazis as an opportunity to destroy the first socialist project.
You understand how you're doing apologia for Nazis now?
So the arrest and torture of Jewish doctors under Stalin's rule never happened apparently. And he never murdered Solomon Mikhoels because of his antisemitic paranoia apparently. And religious Jews were never pathologised and forcibly converted to atheism apparently.
Good to see you live in a fairytale land where everything about your favourite dictator is a CIA lie or whatever.
Naziism is still alive and well as an ideology, unfortunately. And the Allies helped defeat Naziism too (for their own self interested reasons too) so it's not like the USSR should be accredited with defeating an entire ideology
Oh so the USSR fighting Nazis because they faced annihilation is somehow less than the allies begrudging support for them because they ultimately agreed with the Nazis ideologically but feared their destabilizing effect on global capital?
FFS you people are so cowardly. You can't just come out and say you think the Nazis were fine for combating communism because that is unpopular so you go through all these mental gymnastics.
You can't just come out and say you think the Nazis were fine for combating communism because that is unpopular so you go through all these mental gymnastics.
Stop putting words in my mouth you little shit, you KNOW I don't think that.
You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
Are you describing the western allies? Shit sucked back then from all directions for LGBT people. The United States genocide of indigenous people directly inspired the holocaust, Lebensraum was the european spinoff of "manifest destiny"
You just were like "what about their treatment of gay people" I'm just pointing out the allies were shit too, and worse in a lot of other ways including genocide
He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
Maybe anarchists shouldn't have murdered Bolsheviks and attempted to enact terror plots against the Soviet Union and they wouldn't have gotten liquidated by the USSR?
It's funny how you use the word "murder" to describe the anarchists' killing and then switch to a euphemism ("liquidate") the second you talk about the USSR's killing.
Liquidate doesn't refer to murder though. Liquidation means to dissolve or disband political organisations, which is what I was referring to.
If you think that I'm euphemising the fact that the Red Army destroyed the Black Army then your implicit bias is showing because they were at war with one another. Murder isn't something that is applied to enemy armies which have engaged one another in war. I'm not complaining about the Black Army killing Bolsheviks in war. That's what happens.
I'm talking about literal extrajudicial murders of Bolsheviks by the Makhnovist secret police.
Edit:
I forgot that I'm talking to an anarchist.
Sources:
Nestor Makhno in the Russian Civil War by Malet, pp. 51-52, 103-104, and 129. Before you say it, here's Malet in his own words in the preface:
It will be clear from the book that the author has some sympathy with Makhno and his ideals, but he trusts that this has not led to gross distortion or untruth.
Kontrrazvedka: The Story of the Makhnovist Intelligence Service by Azarov, pp 32-33 but there's plenty more in there too. Before you say it about him, too:
Azarov was active in the Social-Democratic Party of Ukraine but left that party when its anarchist fractions were expelled.
In 1999 Azarov was one of the founders of the political party “Union of Anarchists of Ukraine” (SAU). At the founding congress Azarov was elected chair of the the chief executive organ of the SAU.
mein freund you are none of those, you post on the internet and watch v*ush (🤮) streams, anarchists irl are jailed and murdered in the west for trying to make the world a better place, would you like a book recommendation?
And then he pushed the Doctors' Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn't commit, but I guess that didn't happen in your little fantasy land.
Even in Stalin's time there was collective leadership. Misunderstandinga on that subject are caused by a lack of comprehension of the real nature and organisation of the communist party structure. Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of the team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the next captain.
Today I learner that I, a far left anarchist that desires the complete abolition of state and a direct democracy of the people, is an "anti communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists". And that apparently worshipping totalitarian dictatorships is the only real form of leftism and is definitely not fascism with a red coat of paint.
In fact, you're actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs
Neither do you it seems. I'm going to assume a couple of things here, correct me if I'm wrong.
You live in a western country
you're no older than 25
you've never read any theory. No Engels, no Marx, no Lenin, no Luxembourg, nothing.
you spend a lot of time watching streamers. probably v*ush, which is the only one I've heard of so far and god do I wish I didn't.
your political and ideological views are pretty much a direct representation of the views of said streamers.
anything to the left of you, you consider 'wrongthink', and attempt to shut down your own learning process by calling everyone who says things you don't like a tankie.
you don't like tankies because they are 'authoritarian' but refuse to learn what the question of authority actually entails. I'll link Engels' 'On authority' so you can read that and see where we're coming from (https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm). There are also audiobooks because I'm assuming you won't read this either.
you can't spell 'bourgeoisie' without looking it up on the internet.
You believe that communists stabbed Makhnovia in the back
You believe that Makhnovia was an example of anarchist principals put into practice
You have no idea that the Makhnovists had a secret police, that they engaged in the summary execution of political rivals, and that committed genocidal acts against German settlers and especially Mennonites in Ukraine
You believe that communists stabbed the Spanish Republic in the back
You believe that major parts of the Spanish Republic are an example of anarchism put into practice
You have no idea that the Spanish Republic had forced labour camps, extreme levels of control over labourers and the movement and spending habits of the people, zero desire to lose their colonial holdings over the part of Morocco that was their colony because they aspired to colonise more of Africa and that they rejected overtures from the Moroccan people who sued for independence with very favourable conditions for the Spanish Republic, and all the apparatuses of state that you would expect from a typical government
You are unable to provide a functional definition of fascism without looking it up
The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
This is a factually true statement. You should check it.
Stalin would've thrown you in a gulag for being a "sexual deviant" if you lived in the Soviet Union during his reign. In China you are just straight up not allowed to get HRT unless you have a clean criminal record and your ENTIRE FAMILY approves on top of the standard medical gatekeeping. If even one family member disapproves of your transition (which is almost certainly likely considering how popular transphobia is there) the government is like "nope sorry can't help you there" and will throw you in prison if you try to get HRT by other means.
I do not know why the fuck you want to lick boots that would kick you in the face.
So? The europeans were imprisoning and chemically castrating us at the time. It was queer people in the GDR that caused a lot of the social movements that improved Europe on lgbt issues in fact. Here's a great video on that topic.
You are yet another liberal that only views history by comparing it to the present instead of within its correct historical context.
I also don't see what it has to do with the previous factually correct statement. You are desperately diverting away from the point.
I'm a socialist you fucking loser. Shut the fuck up and think before assuming I'm a fascist for disagreeing with you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Did I say you were a fascist? I said that anti-communism leaves the door open to fascists. And I said that ideologically vulgar anti-communism is the underpinning of fascism. These are both true. If you make your community about anti-communism, fascists will come. And fascism gains power when the capitalist class is in crisis and chooses a less profitable closed society that keeps the left in check rather than see their power realistically challenged.
You can laugh all you want at easily researched facts but they're still true. China. I'll edit when I find one for the USSR that isn't a lecture or a book, but in the meantime reflect on how they went from feudal farmers to the first people in space within a generation
Oh. And they did it without the stolen wealth of entire continents in the southern hemisphere.
Ah yes, because the best way to defeat fascism is to worship dictatorships lead by power-hungry, totalitarian bigots
Hollow buzzwords aside, the Soviet Union literally did defeat fascism.
Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
There's your mask off, peanut gallery. This is literal holocaust denial you're seeing. You opened the door to fascists and they're among you. You're defederating on the ideological grounds of anti-communism with the stated motivation of making it more of a safe place for queer voices. You're inviting in the kind of people who want us dead.
lol it's amazing, yeah the USSR saw Nazis as a threat, the west saw them as an opportunity. AND THEY ARE DEFENDING THE LATTER HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
There it is! Yes they saw Germany as a threat to their existence because Hitler wanted to genocide them. The west saw the Nazis as an opportunity to destroy the first socialist project.
You understand how you're doing apologia for Nazis now?
So the arrest and torture of Jewish doctors under Stalin's rule never happened apparently. And he never murdered Solomon Mikhoels because of his antisemitic paranoia apparently. And religious Jews were never pathologised and forcibly converted to atheism apparently.
Good to see you live in a fairytale land where everything about your favourite dictator is a CIA lie or whatever.
This has literally nothing to do with my reply, even if I took it at face value which I do not.
You're trying so hard to justify supporting literal Nazis.
I really don't get how you think this diminishes the fact that the soviets defeated nazism
Naziism is still alive and well as an ideology, unfortunately. And the Allies helped defeat Naziism too (for their own self interested reasons too) so it's not like the USSR should be accredited with defeating an entire ideology
Oh so the USSR fighting Nazis because they faced annihilation is somehow less than the allies begrudging support for them because they ultimately agreed with the Nazis ideologically but feared their destabilizing effect on global capital?
FFS you people are so cowardly. You can't just come out and say you think the Nazis were fine for combating communism because that is unpopular so you go through all these mental gymnastics.
Stop putting words in my mouth you little shit, you KNOW I don't think that.
Are you describing the western allies? Shit sucked back then from all directions for LGBT people. The United States genocide of indigenous people directly inspired the holocaust, Lebensraum was the european spinoff of "manifest destiny"
Just because I hate the USSR doesn't mean that I approve of everything the First World did. Cease your whataboutism.
You just were like "what about their treatment of gay people" I'm just pointing out the allies were shit too, and worse in a lot of other ways including genocide
Whataboutism
Just so you know, Stalin still loves you.
He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
Unlike in the west 😉.
I'll pray for you.
I'm in a western country and not in jail, so yeah, unlike in the west.
You seem to be temporally confused...
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but our glorious comrade Stalin died quite some time ago.
Eternal glory to our Great Comrade. He is with us always
Rot in hell you tankie piece of shit
Maybe anarchists shouldn't have murdered Bolsheviks and attempted to enact terror plots against the Soviet Union and they wouldn't have gotten liquidated by the USSR?
Just sayin'
It's funny how you use the word "murder" to describe the anarchists' killing and then switch to a euphemism ("liquidate") the second you talk about the USSR's killing.
Shows how completely brainwashed you are.
Liquidate doesn't refer to murder though. Liquidation means to dissolve or disband political organisations, which is what I was referring to.
If you think that I'm euphemising the fact that the Red Army destroyed the Black Army then your implicit bias is showing because they were at war with one another. Murder isn't something that is applied to enemy armies which have engaged one another in war. I'm not complaining about the Black Army killing Bolsheviks in war. That's what happens.
I'm talking about literal extrajudicial murders of Bolsheviks by the Makhnovist secret police.
Edit:
I forgot that I'm talking to an anarchist.
Sources: Nestor Makhno in the Russian Civil War by Malet, pp. 51-52, 103-104, and 129. Before you say it, here's Malet in his own words in the preface:
Kontrrazvedka: The Story of the Makhnovist Intelligence Service by Azarov, pp 32-33 but there's plenty more in there too. Before you say it about him, too:
mein freund you are none of those, you post on the internet and watch v*ush (🤮) streams, anarchists irl are jailed and murdered in the west for trying to make the world a better place, would you like a book recommendation?
hey now they haven't jailed me yet!
Death to america, may they never succeed!
Death to Amerikkka indeed.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/chunka-luta-summer-fundraiser
We are going to make this a reality.
We travel the Red Road and if you want to join us you are welcome to dm me.
Also we already did make a part of this reality. We raised twice as much as we had hoped for with the summer fund raiser. We are doing much more.
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And then he pushed the Doctors' Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn't commit, but I guess that didn't happen in your little fantasy land.
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— CIA documents, 1950s
No you're not.
Uh, yes I am? You don't know shit about my political opinions
You're an anti-communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists
In fact, you're actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs
Eat shit
lol what
Let me rephrase that in a way you might better understand:
You're an anti-communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists
In fact, you're actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs
Eat shit
Ah shit I just said the same thing @Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net said, ah well guess there isn't any better way to say it
Today I learner that I, a far left anarchist that desires the complete abolition of state and a direct democracy of the people, is an "anti communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists". And that apparently worshipping totalitarian dictatorships is the only real form of leftism and is definitely not fascism with a red coat of paint.
Care to show me where I ever said that?
You're defending a literal fascist right now in this very thread.
Moss is a piece of shit and this instance is full of actual genocide deniers
Like this https://hexbear.net/post/372306
Guilt by association fallacy, as it's completely irrelevant to your OWN genocide denial that's being criticised here.
Curious, just a few comments up you said you were a socialist
I am, what are you talking about
Neither do you it seems. I'm going to assume a couple of things here, correct me if I'm wrong.
You believe that communists stabbed Makhnovia in the back
You believe that Makhnovia was an example of anarchist principals put into practice
You have no idea that the Makhnovists had a secret police, that they engaged in the summary execution of political rivals, and that committed genocidal acts against German settlers and especially Mennonites in Ukraine
You believe that communists stabbed the Spanish Republic in the back
You believe that major parts of the Spanish Republic are an example of anarchism put into practice
You have no idea that the Spanish Republic had forced labour camps, extreme levels of control over labourers and the movement and spending habits of the people, zero desire to lose their colonial holdings over the part of Morocco that was their colony because they aspired to colonise more of Africa and that they rejected overtures from the Moroccan people who sued for independence with very favourable conditions for the Spanish Republic, and all the apparatuses of state that you would expect from a typical government
You are unable to provide a functional definition of fascism without looking it up
That’s a pretty big assumption that they’d have enough historical knowledge to even know these were a thing.
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This is a factually true statement. You should check it.
Stalin would've thrown you in a gulag for being a "sexual deviant" if you lived in the Soviet Union during his reign. In China you are just straight up not allowed to get HRT unless you have a clean criminal record and your ENTIRE FAMILY approves on top of the standard medical gatekeeping. If even one family member disapproves of your transition (which is almost certainly likely considering how popular transphobia is there) the government is like "nope sorry can't help you there" and will throw you in prison if you try to get HRT by other means.
I do not know why the fuck you want to lick boots that would kick you in the face.
So? The europeans were imprisoning and chemically castrating us at the time. It was queer people in the GDR that caused a lot of the social movements that improved Europe on lgbt issues in fact. Here's a great video on that topic.
You are yet another liberal that only views history by comparing it to the present instead of within its correct historical context.
I also don't see what it has to do with the previous factually correct statement. You are desperately diverting away from the point.