It's a situation that I have been expecting for a while, but I wasn't fully ready to accept it. Specifically it's one of my LGBTQ friends who honestly believes in the democrats will protect them and their partner. I have tried to make the point that both parties are eroding any sort of civility towards all marginalized groups, but fear seems to drive them more than logical observations. They make the excuse that change doesn't happen over night and that the left continues to grow and will have meaningful affects down the road. I fundamentally just don't agree with that idea and vocalize it regularly. More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with. I try to tell them it's kind of the whole point. We gotta start somewhere if we want to see a better, more representative system, but they are so hung up on the immediate future while simultaneously saying that my idealistic feelings are shortsighted and I cant expect change in the immediate future... The double-talk is wild, I know.
I am trying my hardest to stop from engaging at this point because on the most basic level we agree on a lot of stuff, but they are just way to wrapped up in the fear mongering of the democratic party. They know that the two party system is broken, they know that something drastic needs to change, but they also think that they are powerless to do anything except choose the lesser evil. It pains me because I am watching them do the same shit past generations have done, where they give up on their ideals for the sake of preserving the current status quo that they benefit from. I am legitimately watching them imply "fuck you, got mine" under the guise of civic duty and I hate it. I want nothing more than to be able to finally say "I told you so" without being a smug asshole about it and ruining our friendship.
Thanks for reading my rant. It's probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.
Have you considered that Kamala's worthless neo liberal economic policy, racist border policy, and hawkish right wing foreign policy will ensure fascism? A vote for for Kamala is a vote for 4 years of stagnant decline and imperial embarrassment that brought about trump in the first place, ripe for a competent fascist to step in
Libs consider this bravery
Racist border policy?
By voting third party you're helping the man who built a fucking wall next to Mexico, and you are also helping him deregulate every single industry that's willing to give him money, creating an economic policy that's far worse then you could ever imagine. Your vote for a third party isn't showing any support to anyone whatsoever right now, it's just helping Trump.
No one helped Trump more than the Democrats. That is on THEM, not us. They
deliberately leveraged their media contacts to prop Trump up and increase his popularity to cult status to ensure he was the nominee to play existential chicken with the electorate. It called the Pied Piper Strategy.
They then use Trump as a shield to do their reich wing fascist ratchet effect bullshit anyways - much like you are doing using
to defend getting people on board to consenting to genocide. 
Democrats full hearted embrace of genocidal policies and the Bush/Cheney PNAC forever war doctorine and it's wealthy bribers and fanatical zealots in the military industial complex is helping Trump. It's complete dismissal / persecution of peace activists, and looking the other way while state after state criminalized LGBTQ+ rights doing NOTHING while they have the presidency and Senate.
The next will be "oh but they need full control" - look at how useless they are in California where they have a veto proof super majority, the world’s 5th largest economy, and refuse to pass a universal healthcare system (Calcare). Look at when Obama had his and said Abortion wasn't a priority - or the last 50 years that they could have codified it into law.
Obama campaigned on fixing the Bush Chney disaster and then did everything they did and worse
.
It took activists going against the DNC and the DC advocacy orgs like HRC to push lawsuits via grassroots to get gay marraige through. The DC orgs are designed to kick the can down the road as long as possible milking the issue ...."being pragmatic" while they go to cocktail parties and fancy galas with your donations. We had to force the Deboer vs Snyder issue. to the supreme court. The GoFundMe page, while inactive now, is still up for historical reasons.
The activists forcing the issue of marriage outside of the "pragmatic change is slow" has become a UofM case study (PDF) DeBoer v. Snyder: A Case Study In Litigation and Social Reform
Biden can stop the genocide by cutting off the arms flow. The Democrats should have been codifying trans rights into federal law instead of letting the Republicans and their pseudoscience fascists go ALEC cookie cutter across flyover country.
was more concerned about making Ukkkraine a burn pit dumping ground for arms and genociding Palestine than the rights of his own people.
But at least Michelle Obama gives hugs and chocolate kisses to GW Bush and Liz and Dick Cheney endoreses Kopmala. They'll probably rehabilitate Trump at some point down the line when their next Frankenstein's monster they helped prop up needs civility.
Genocide should be red line, not one you compromise with or use Trump as a shield or comfort blanket. And if the Democrats have an issue with people not holding their nose for the unpteenth time because the abusive relationship has gone too far then that is on the Democrats. Simple policy things that they are fully in control of that can change NOW. Kamala Harris has shown no remorse for genocide. She has shown every intention for continued support of genocide.
Then there's this whole firced Red Scare 3.0 evil Russia / China bullshit they stsrted in 2015 too. Probably a new Lavender Scare to accompany it is why they look the other way o LGBTQ rights under attack. They can fuck off with that. Russia and China are economc competitors they are not our mortal enemy. They want resources? Make a deal rather than spend trillions in saber rattling and arms races. Idiots going to get us all killed.
If they lose then that is on THEM not us. We tried a last gasp of saving the party from itself in 2016 after DECADES of playing the hold the nose lesser evil game. No more. Don't blame 3rd parties. That's the fault of Democrats becoming the party of Bush and Cheney. That's the
of becoming neocons. The whole Nader thing? The Dmeocrats also ran their VP of an unpopular with labor and the left Clinton. Baggage. Then the supreme court, 
, HW bush, 
appointed the son of a CIA director with Cheney, who is now oh so cuddles with the Democrats. So that's all moot, they became Bush and Cheney anyways - and they will become Trump lovers next.
The Democrats will never move to the left again. You must realize this.
If Trump wins - he is term limited. Most likely the Dems will recover a branch in 2026 effectively lame ducking Trump. Then in 2028 you get a non-incumbant election with the dems set up like Obama 2008 was. Even if they do they'll squander it and learn nothing.
Weird that you didn't get a snide response. Probably a coincidence
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
By supporting Dems you're helping the party that literally helped build a fucking wall next to Mexico, proposed hundreds of millions for expanding it, deregulate every single industry that's willing to give them money, oversaw the destruction of Roe v Wade, and countless billions on funding genocide and overseas war. The Democrats are trying to create a whole new border agency dedicated to ripping people out of their homes, just to prove how hard they are on immigration. Your support for Dems isn't showing any support to anyone whatsoever right now, it's just helping genocide and oppression.
Removed by mod
Yeah and trump is still better than electing a dog with rabies. If your baseline is "here's a worse candidate" then you can clap for anything. It's also completely debateable wether he'll be worse. You are handwaving away several things as being insignificant, that aren't.
They deported more people.
Bills that will pass anyway because the dems don't give a shit about any of it. At least with Trump people like you went out to fight against it.
Do you think this is an argument for the dems? Yes they are just as bad, glad we agree.
Trump also oversaw the agreement to finally pull out of Afghanistan. The Biden regime decided the best way to help afghanis were to freeze all foreign assets. I'm sure the people being ruled over by taleban are grateful they also get to starve and their state has no money to finance renovations.
Apart from the tariffs on cheap EVs and solar cells and the union busting and the decreased requirements for freight trains which have led to seceral catastrophies? There's definitely way more, I just can't be arsed to look them up for a person I know will come with some dumbshit
response.
The realistic option is to not normalize genocide. Voting for someone who is actively commiting a genocide will make things far worse than electing a guy who is like all the others, just a bit more obvious about it. The realistic option is to not give legitimacy to rulers who do these things. The realistic option is not to do something that has only yielded terrible results. Your line of argument has been trotted out since Nixon for gods sakes, and even then it was old!
Removed by mod
Colonialist mindset. Worse than hitler
"We killed and robbed them and now they are poor"
ITS YOUR FAULT IMPERIALIST
Your "aid" comes in form of bombs and lectures. Fuck off imperialists
Hold on, I gotta ask a clarifying question. What do you think REgon means when they talk about tariffs on cheap EVs and solar cells? Because your response seems to suggest you think the tariffs are an attempt by Democrats to save the environment and my understanding is pretty much directly opposite of that. Could you please explain what you're talking about? Thanks
Please explain how not choosing Kamala is choosing Trump, but not choosing Trump isn't choosing Kamala
Didn't read after you failed to engage with the first three of my arguments. Quoting them and then just repeating yourself isn't really what normal people think of when they think of discussions and the like. To illustrate your shittiness.
Oh okay then, glad we cleared that up, it's not like I illustrated how, but whatever. Have fun never learning anything.
Edit: I saw someone else comment about the tariffs so I skipped down to read that bit... You're a fucking moron. Quit talking about things you don't understand.
Those "damn libs" who want to save the planet have made electric vehiclesmore expensive and solar cells more expensive by putting tariffs on them. That's what tariffs do.
Thank you for showing your ass and furthering my belief in that I was right not to waste my time reading the rest of your drivel. Do us all a favor and see for how long you can hold your breath at the bottom of a lake.
Also Canadian healthcare is free, you should look into it.
I'm not voting 3rd party I'm voting for Hillary, she's a Democrat
A vote for Kamala in 2024 is a vote for the competent fascist to rise in 2028