I've been telling people, if an admin defeds lemmygrad for some smarmy ass lying complete libshit reasons like Ada did, you should have 0 (zero) confidence that she or any other admin who does the same will be willing to engage y'all in good faith and actually work to change their instance, there isn't a single reason to defed lemmygrad that couldn't also be used to defed Hexbear for other than maybe lemmygrad is more sectatarian but that makes up maybe 1% of the content on our comms, or maybe that it's not as outwardly pro-trans*, but then again it's also the only instance in the threadiverse that I'm aware of that specifically makes you give your view on gender as part of it's application to weed out transphobes before they can even make an account (I'm not even sure how many instances even still use applications).
Brigading? I've seen more links dropped in hexbear threads in the like 2 weeks y'all have been federated than I did in 3 months on lemmygrad
Trolling? Y'all literally have an emote of a fucking pig shitting on its own testicles, what trolling can lemmygrad even conjure to compare to that
"being ok with wishing death on the people of Nato" this is the most baffling one, y'all literally have an emote dedicated to this kind of comment that has a nuke symbol and says "Please, Xi" that's used to say that the entirety of the west should be nuked and destroyed which is the exact same of comments made on lemmygrad just without the emote, and that's just the ones that use that emote in particular.
It may look like I'm saying I told you so because, well, I am, I told you so. I would be extremely surprised if that shithead of a mod gets removed, I put it at about the same chances as blahaj refederating with lemmygrad (so never, lol).
*I'm sure lemmygrad could be better in some way about this, but at the same time 11% of our users were trans when we did a survey 2 months ago, which I hope means that it's generally still a good, safe instance for our trans comrades (P.S. WE LOVE OUR TRANS COMRADES)
Edit: some further evidence of shit lib behavior, when she originally defederated lemmygrad it's not like she put effort to remain federated like y'all did, she dropped 2 (two) comments deep in some random ass thread where she called us tankies, this person was never going to put in the same kind of effort that y'all were going to, forgot about this until after I made the post https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/501598 https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/501598 their instance is struggling so here's a screenshot if you can't load them
I was looking forward to you doing an "I told you so" post, and you're right to say it. It became clear that they're mostly 196
libs who intended to string us along for as many concessions as they could get before springing the inevitable defederation, so I'm glad our beautiful mods preempted them before those parasites could take much advantage of our good will.I guess I should say I really admire the optimism and commitment for trans solidarity in the lemmyverse by a bunch of hexbear users, but I really don't think this could have gone any other way unfortunately, anyone who uses the word tankie like that has shown their true colors, the only reason I can think for why y'all didn't just get the exact same treatment as lemmygrad (i.e. defederated and announced deep in a random comment section), is that everyone and their mother already knew how pro-trans hexbear is and it would have been too bad of a look for their instance to do that?
I didn't even realize they defederated from us already. All because we're NATOphobic 😔
I haven't done anything, haven't expected anything and yet I'm disappointed.
And yeah, because our emoji game here on Lemmygrad is so lackluster I've mostly been using hexbear emojis. But because they are written in text, only hexbaristas can see them. Also yes, I remember all the emoji names I use by heart.
Either way, I don't really care lmao :rotato-chip:
The only "problem" I have with federation is because you guys swarmed us so bad I see much less Lemmygrad posts xD. Even look at me! I'm more active on Hexbear lmao
Leave me alone :angery:
I totally don't have bias towards :rotato-chip:, totally. :rotato-chip: is just a good emoji ok :angery:
No, I'm literally unironically soyfacing at the rotato. It's hands down the best emoji I've seen.
There's an emoji suggestion comm on the grad, but some of the more recent ones weren't added.
I know, I submitted :rotato-chip: to us as well. Guess where it got added lmao
The only "problem" I have with federation is because you guys swarmed us so bad I see much less Lemmygrad posts xD. Even look at me! I'm more active on Hexbear lmao
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I wasn't surprised. I could smell Adas bad faith from a mile away.
I didn't mean to say every hexbear user, but I myself have been a little shocked by how many hexbear users seemed on board with bending backwards for blahaj
I just wanted our trans comrades to have more friends on a trans-friendly instance, but 196 just really makes it a cesspool.
Defederating with blahaj was the right move, but I don't think federating with them and at least trying was the wrong move either. Our short federated time meant we got a lot of users make accounts here, and I think a lot of users who stayed are now hyper-aware of their troubling internal politics (one of the top comments in the 'Hexbear defederated' thread is 'I'm concerned about 196'). If we never make efforts to outreach and talk with troubling libs, then we are doing absolutely nothing but preaching to ourselves.Finding libs on which to directly dunk is the closest posting comes to praxis.
i think trying was a good idea at least so that now the trans users of blahaj know there are other options out there. i strongly believe in trans unity and really wanted it to work out, but the fact is there are a ton of cis wreckers on blahaj making trans unity impossible with them. we've already seen many trans users of blahaj jump ship to here
but I don’t think federating with them and at least trying was the wrong move either.
You're arguing against a point that I didn't make. https://hexbear.net/comment/3601741 here I am advocating for hexbear to federate with everyone with a blocklist instead of an allowlist, but my point was that it was a waste of time to try and please the blahaj admins (or any other shitlib admin), the rules hexbear set out at the beginning of federation were just fine.
I don't really get this response. I literally said
I don't think federating with them and at least trying was the wrong move
and then you say
You're arguing against a point that I didn't make ... my point was that it was a waste of time to try
Maybe we've just a crossed wire in communication here, but I very much think it was worth trying to get on with the admins, that it paid off in our favour and would have either way.
I guess I took it as you thought I was just saying that hexbear never should have federated with blahaj in the first place. I just disagree about contorting yourself trying to please shitlibs is all
Yep, fair enough, sorry for not being clear. We do disagree somewhat on that point, but otherwise aye
ah don't be sorry, internet communication is hard, just as likely I just misread it. Hope you have a great day comrade!
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To me it wasn't. I knew western libs. They were never real about it. They just built a "culture" around a limited number of left-wing issues that didn't go against their core beliefs and now just keep being chauvinists.
ELI Boomer: Why is 196 so popular and/or such a big thing? I understand that the rule says you should post something before leaving. But this results in typical meme community except the post titles are "rule" or a play on that word.
how deep of a cut from the reddit lore do you want? like 1 sentence or the full story?
Maybe one or two paragraphs? I don't want you to burn too much time/energy on this.
In the beginning, there was r/195
it was started by some random dude in college that made the subreddit as a shitposting community specifically for people in the dorm, which had the number "195" on it. It eventually escaped its intended audience and massively grew in popularity, and the rule was that you had to post before you leave, and so it just became an incredibly random shitpost subreddit.
Eventually, the original creator decided he didn't want to deal with actually moderating it anymore since it was never actually intended to grow that popular, and so he shut it down much to the dismay of its users. So, r/196 was created to replace it (because 195+1=196).
It's unclear to me if it was originally like this or just became this way over time, but r/196 became one of the most pro trans places on reddit. However, it had a scourge brewing. Slowly but surely, it began to be taken over by chasers and just general hornyposting, and just generally by V*ushites with all the "ebil tankie!?!?" posting, because teenagers overwhelmingly used that place and that's the kind of discourse you might expect to see when a place is overwhelmingly used by teenagers, so r/19684 was created to purge the hornyposting which got rid of a lot of the chasers as well.
So, what seperates these subs from a general meme sub? Not that much, other than because of the circumstances of their creation they're far more trans-inclusive and less outright reactionary than the the meme subs you normally see on reddit like r/memes or r/dankmemes, But also generally the posting is generally even more derivative and more unhinged on places like r/196 than like r/memes because r/memes at least attempts to put some guidelines forth about quality control but there's nothing like that in the r/195 style places.
Hope that helps
Yeah, it was weird watching r/196 turn from a place that would call out V to a place that had unironic V stan posts. Initially the red scare stuff seemed pretty sparse but grew over time, and is worse on the Lemmy side than on the sub even.
I'm just wondered if it was the result of moderation changes, or population shifts. Could just be V-ites moving into the place. I swear in the last few years though, there seems to be a conscious effort to move trans communities out actual leftist thinking into liberal thinking. It could just be driven by fear around SCOTUS and state level politics in the US, but it just seems like such a marked shift.
another user commented that the change happened virtually overnight and within two weeks it was a totally different place. smells like fed shit.
yeah, it was pretty quick. Felt organized, but that could be a lot of things. DNC outreach ops to influencers, who nudge viewers, who move into spaces in an organized way could look the same.
Doesn't matter really how it happened, so who cares? Even if it's completely organic, it means leftists were out organized by some sort of liberal. It doesn't take much organizing to influencing to change small spaces and libs are apparently doing the work that we aren't. And it's not limited to 196.
I should mention there's more lore that I've never bothered to look into, like why is there a r/197? don't really know, and I've already put too much time browsing through threads trying to piece together answers while
ors do that annoying shit where they think they're comedy geniuses for giving joke replies to people asking serious questions and then never actually giving an answer, maybe I wouldn't mind spending more time looking all this up because internet lore like this is kinda fun to read about, if ors stopped being such dorks and making it so much harder than it needs to be. I know there have been like mod team overthrows on r/195 related subreddits when ML's try to make their own versions of those subs, and then overthrowing modteams in response, etc. etc.I know @Awoo@hexbear.net has been pretty involved with moderating a lot of ML subreddits over the years so I bet she might know more about that specific drama that I'm talking about
why is there a r/197? don't really know
it's gotta be for the same reason there was a /r/chapotraphouse2_2_2 or whatever, right? because somebody thought it was funny?
I think maybe it's for people who didn't like the environment of r/196 so probably transphobes? I don't really know though
I honestly know very little about the behind the scenes of 196. Their group is insular and has never participated in almost any of the common backrooms, and I've not been personally involved in any dramas related to them so.
My understanding of 195 was just that they closed after getting to a certain subscriber number.
Sorry I can't be of more help. I basically gave up on the space due to anticommunism, any space with anticommunism has always become fash-adjacent, it's just a matter of time. So I didn't waste my time with any of it.
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if this is a bot account could you mark it as a bot account please?
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eh won't take that long I'll just go find another comment that I've typed up about this before and clean it up give me a couple minutes lol
Honestly it was worthwhile for our new trans comrades. I didn't think it would ever last given all the problems with blajah.
Maybe I should edit my post, my point wasn't that hexbear shouldn't have federated with blahaj, I'm in favor of federating with basically every instance besides complete nazi and spam ones, but I saw multiple people arguing that hexbear should curtail its behavior so that blahaj wouldn't defederate it and I've seen surprise that Ada acted like this, that's more what my post is about, that trying to cater to shitlibs will get you absolutely no where and no one should have been surprised by this series of events
personally, I hoped we'd be able to block the problematic comms but keep the trans comms linked. it's their inability to enforce their own ToS on their moderators that actually surprises me. I think I've just forgotten what libs are like over the past few years and I think that's true for a lot of us. we're used to moderators and admins taking a firm hand while responding to input from the community. the spinelessness is more galling than anything else.
I think that's fair, I've been on lemmygrad even a few weeks before the great
migration, and so I've just seen for like 2 months straight how all these lib admins act towards lemmygrad, and hexbear is really not that different as far as politics go and is more "disruptive" as far as its posting style and activity levels go, so I just don't see a world where they won't use the exact same excuses to defed hexbear. Case in point, Beehaw has basically said they've defederated from lemmygrad because of hate speech (lol), and lo and behold hexbear is also mysteriously defederated, probably for "hate speech"oh yeah, beehaw defederated us before we cut over to lemmy proper and before the site url had changed. it was very funny and there were a couple of shitposts suggesting we not change the url so their block wouldn't work.
left unity gives us a bit of cover cause it's not immediately obvious that we're going to come in hot about like, China. it's enough room that diplomacy can work - but it takes admins who are willing to take a firmer stand. if Ada had banned that 196 mod and the user claiming we were faking being trans, we'd still be federated. that's all it would have taken to make comm blocking on both sides a feasible option. it's the lack of principles and lackadaisical approach to moderation that actually spiked things. ideological differences only highlighted that deeper tension.
Yeah it definitely could have been predicted, and was by others. I want to say even then it may have made sense to go through with it to have the experience to quell any concerns some might have but I'm not as sure about that as I once was.
I think it's fine that hexbear federated with blahaj, and for me personally it didn't cross the line into a complete nazi instance so even if blahaj hadn't defederated from lemmygrad it's not like I would have been pushing for the grad admins to defed it, it's just more all the effort spent on trying to keep blahaj happy seemed very out of place to me. That kind of effort is wasted on shitlibs
That's fair I guess, I'm sure a lot of people didn't see her calling lemmygrad users "tankies" unironically, because I can't imagine liking someone who does that tbh if you're a hexbear user
it's a classic, it's their favorite accusation of the Grad. I argued a week or 2 ago with some moron who kept saying that lemmygrad were the paid propagandists while hexbear was just a bunch of useful idiots swallowing it lol
putting it in your "good faith - we're going to try to make this work" post is
I didn't know shit about this instance before federation, but a lot of our trans comrades wanted to make it work, which was a good reason to give it a go.
Although the fact they had defedded the Grad was always a bad sign, I agree
I'd just like to point out that
gets an exemption as it's not political, but religious.Thanks!
idk Ada seemed to genuinely be trying. The comm specific mod yeah sure they can eat the poop off the pigs balls, but idk it feels like the admin was put between a rock and a hard place kinda.
Yeah yeah libshit this and that, but were it not for 196 I'd imagine hexbear would still be federated, and 'grad would never have been defederated in the first place? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but again, I saw nothing of concern from Ada that couldn't be attributed to having rabid anticommunists in her ear
https://hexbear.net/comment/3769480
yeah this doesn't seem that genuine to me. Also, what rock and hard place? just remove the mod for fuck's sake, it's not that hard? and is complaining about wish to death to NATO seriously not bother you? Idk, why even give her any benefit of the doubt in this situation? She certainly didn't seem to deem it necessary to try and work something out with lemmygrad (at least I'm unaware of any communications between her and the lemmygrad admin team) instead of just quietly defederating when she first did it months ago, she basically just announced it buried deep in a thread 2 months ago https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/496688 https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/501598 and called us tankies, she's an anticommunist radlib at best
When that happened it's when I knew I needed to jump ship from that instance lmao what a trainwreck
glad you found your way to hexbear, hope you've enjoyed your time on there
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I have, thank you comrade! And being federated with lemmygrad is great, a united front
If she'd reached out to us my response would have been that we'd have to reply to Ada, then Ada would have to reply to us, and then we'd get into an incessant back-and-forth with each of us having to reply to the other. It would be much more to the point to say that Ada is a traitor to the working class and everyone would understand.
P.S. Ada has sent in a silly DM. We shall neither print it nor reply to her.
my response would have been we would have to reply to Ada
could you clarify the transition I'm a little confused what you're saying here. Good to know that she really did put 0 effort in trying to remain federated though which reinforces my point lol
IIRC it's a Lenin quote where he dismisses Trotsky out of hand for being a loser, more or less
Kautsky, not Trotsky, and that quote being real is debatable since Lenin wrote a lot about Kautsky and it's only attributed to him, there's no actual document written by Lenin that has this quote IIRC.
ah thank you that give me a lot of context and I understand it now, I'm pretty tired I think this is a sign for me to go to bed lol
ah thank you that give me a lot of context and I understand it now, I'm pretty tired I think this is a sign for me to go to bed lol
would have been that* we would have to reply, that might be clearer.
yeah I wouldn't hold out hope if I were you. Sorry if I came across a little aggressive btw, I re-read my reply and I think I could have worded it less sharply
nah you're good, I can't be across everything lol. She's clearly a shitlib or conflict-averse at best, though from what I saw of her she seemed to value queer solidarity above all.
Sadly, you can't have solidarity while also appeasing reactionaries
idk Ada seemed to genuinely be trying.
You're obviously much more charitable than me, I am no longer willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
I could be wrong, but I think she knows exactly what she's doing.
My interpretation is more charitable, but not exactly good. I think she's conflict averse and very aware that c/196 is most of the instance's users/traffic; dicking around with their guy would create her a lot of enemies very quickly, many of which might be enmeshed in her life in one way or another.
But what would it really matter if any of these interpretations were correct, the actions taken wouldn't change.
But what would it really matter if any of these interpretations were correct, the actions taken wouldn't change.
Yeah, very true.
