"Ok guys I just got this great idea for how we can troll the left, it's really funny I promise, what if we like, what if we all like, set up a community where we pretend to be commies, and also a bunch of us were like, trans and gay and stuff? No no like hear me out we would like ban anyone who says slurs or questions the validity of trans people in any way, lol. Like, what if we designed a bunch of custom emojis with the trans flag and made everyone display pronouns next to the name to make sure nobody gets misgendered? That'd be so funny lol. But we HAVE to make sure nobody catches on, so we should just like, keep the bit to ourselves for a couple years, we'd have to like, spend a couple years hanging out in that kinda space with just us until we can perfect the bit. Ok so who's down?"
Seriously, have these people met chuds before? I'd be impressed to see one that could keep the mask on for like a day.
Don't forget having fucking reading groups and forums for learning about leftist theory and history and having many users on hand who can discuss Marxist, etc. works with a great deal of familiarity, often readily including citations and encouraging people to do their own reading.
I don't think they have met CHUDs. They talk about them, but almost never actually interact with them. So their entire idea about them is concocted in their own heads. That way they don't risk being challenged by the way the CHUDs use exactly the same arguments as libs.
You might have a point. I guess most of us here are better at understanding what goes on inside the heads of chuds, compared to the average person.
At the same time, I think a lot of the stuff people say about us are symbolic beliefs that have more to do with the person saying them. For example, I don't think libs "really" think we're bots or foreign agents, but denouncing us as such lets them reaffirm their loyalty to the state. And this "secretly right-wing" stuff has the same feel. They believe it the same way people "believed" that Trump was going to make Mexico pay for the wall, they just like the way it feels when it comes out of their mouth.
Exactly right, at least as far as I can tell. Their complaints about us are ultimately immaterial. They're just "bad things." we are a collection of "bad things" to them, so they don't have to listen to us. We make them uncomfortable, because Liberalism doesn't actually explain anything about the world, but we clearly do have some kind of understanding of things that they lack. That's threatening to their worldview.
But if they can put us in the "secretly right wing" box, then all our arguments are just "trickery" trying to trick them, the most important people. So they can feel justified in dismissing us without thought because we're part of the bad guy team. Cognitive dissonance resolved.
The thing that gets me is how none of these explanations make any sense in the context that we were on our own for three years. No one's doing an act for three years, especially with nobody to troll. No government is paying foreign agents to talk to each other. And like you said it's very self-centered, almost to the point of solipsism, like my opinion is so important that people are concocting these elaborate ruses to try and fool me, as opposed to the idea that... people just think differently than you? Just an utter unwillingness to consider that anyone might exist who doesn't fit neatly into one of the two mainstream American cultural boxes. Social chauvinists tbqh.
It's really self-serving isn't it? The liberals on lemmy are just so damn important that you'd fake 3 full years of posts where you "pretend" to be leftists just to try and fool them when you finally ended up federating.
It's pure conspiracy theory logic really. The idea that "any evidence against my position is actually just a ruse, regardless of how impossible it would be to actually set that up." Not to mention how much of a waste it would be, what would it even accomplish? If we convinced some shitlib that the whole system is bullshit, then what happens? They just don't vote for Biden next election. Business as usual. It changes nothing about the US, except that maybe the representative of the bourgeoisie is an orange clown of an old man instead of just standard white old man.
Yeah and you see a lot of stuff that's like, in one of the first news threads we were in someone was like, "Just bring up Tiananmen Square, that'll make 'em go away," (and get absolutely dogpiled) and today I saw someone post that copypasta with the Chinese characters that's supposed to dispel Chinese bots or agents, and it's like, those things never work. They have to know they never work. It really is just an article of faith, it's clutching your beads and repeating a mantra until the demons leave you alone.
Yeah, I'll probably just leave them alone. They aren't worth talking to.
Though it is the internet debate equivalent of shitting your pants to get everyone else to leave the room. They just don't understand how they aren't actually "winning" so much as they are "not worth wasting time interacting with."
Yeah I think a bit of the "secretly right-wing" is about morality. It also is about authority and not really thought out concepts of violence and force. There also is the "intention" and "effect" thing going on with sane-ism. Parenti and Lenin said lots of it well, too.
Trying to figure out if I can use this irl, like, "No, see, I'm only transitioning to act as a deep cover operative so I can find and expose the grooming rings, can I count on your cooperation in keeping up my disguise by calling me by a different name and pronouns?"
Even at the peak of the the bizarre frenworld stuff when they tried their damnedest to keep the mask on there'd be a happy merchant or triple parens in every thread
Also I spend too much time here I started spelling "bullshit" B-O-L-S-H from transcribing my inner monologue.
"Ok guys I just got this great idea for how we can troll the left, it's really funny I promise, what if we like, what if we all like, set up a community where we pretend to be commies, and also a bunch of us were like, trans and gay and stuff? No no like hear me out we would like ban anyone who says slurs or questions the validity of trans people in any way, lol. Like, what if we designed a bunch of custom emojis with the trans flag and made everyone display pronouns next to the name to make sure nobody gets misgendered? That'd be so funny lol. But we HAVE to make sure nobody catches on, so we should just like, keep the bit to ourselves for a couple years, we'd have to like, spend a couple years hanging out in that kinda space with just us until we can perfect the bit. Ok so who's down?"
Seriously, have these people met chuds before? I'd be impressed to see one that could keep the mask on for like a day.
Don't forget having fucking reading groups and forums for learning about leftist theory and history and having many users on hand who can discuss Marxist, etc. works with a great deal of familiarity, often readily including citations and encouraging people to do their own reading.
This is some "Judeo-Bolshevism" level shit
Would you be able to recommend some threads/comms that discuss theory and history? I'm new to hexbear and want to read up.
Listen to the Blowback podcast and the official podcast of the community founded around the podcast Chapo Trap House, which is Citations Needed.
Thanks for recommending, I'll be sure to check those out.
deleted by creator
Thanks, I've subscribed.
/c/theory and /c/marxism if you haven't seen them yet.
Highly recommend this reading-
someall of the audio links still work I think https://hexbear.net/post/48476Thanks for the link, I have some reading to do.
The reading never ends, but it's worth it.
Also, a couple of docs on DPRK worth watching
This thread has some really good reading recommendations as well.
We need more text heavy memes. It's the only way to prove our credentials.
deleted by creator
I don't think they have met CHUDs. They talk about them, but almost never actually interact with them. So their entire idea about them is concocted in their own heads. That way they don't risk being challenged by the way the CHUDs use exactly the same arguments as libs.
You might have a point. I guess most of us here are better at understanding what goes on inside the heads of chuds, compared to the average person.
At the same time, I think a lot of the stuff people say about us are symbolic beliefs that have more to do with the person saying them. For example, I don't think libs "really" think we're bots or foreign agents, but denouncing us as such lets them reaffirm their loyalty to the state. And this "secretly right-wing" stuff has the same feel. They believe it the same way people "believed" that Trump was going to make Mexico pay for the wall, they just like the way it feels when it comes out of their mouth.
Exactly right, at least as far as I can tell. Their complaints about us are ultimately immaterial. They're just "bad things." we are a collection of "bad things" to them, so they don't have to listen to us. We make them uncomfortable, because Liberalism doesn't actually explain anything about the world, but we clearly do have some kind of understanding of things that they lack. That's threatening to their worldview.
But if they can put us in the "secretly right wing" box, then all our arguments are just "trickery" trying to trick them, the most important people. So they can feel justified in dismissing us without thought because we're part of the bad guy team. Cognitive dissonance resolved.
The thing that gets me is how none of these explanations make any sense in the context that we were on our own for three years. No one's doing an act for three years, especially with nobody to troll. No government is paying foreign agents to talk to each other. And like you said it's very self-centered, almost to the point of solipsism, like my opinion is so important that people are concocting these elaborate ruses to try and fool me, as opposed to the idea that... people just think differently than you? Just an utter unwillingness to consider that anyone might exist who doesn't fit neatly into one of the two mainstream American cultural boxes. Social chauvinists tbqh.
It's really self-serving isn't it? The liberals on lemmy are just so damn important that you'd fake 3 full years of posts where you "pretend" to be leftists just to try and fool them when you finally ended up federating.
It's pure conspiracy theory logic really. The idea that "any evidence against my position is actually just a ruse, regardless of how impossible it would be to actually set that up." Not to mention how much of a waste it would be, what would it even accomplish? If we convinced some shitlib that the whole system is bullshit, then what happens? They just don't vote for Biden next election. Business as usual. It changes nothing about the US, except that maybe the representative of the bourgeoisie is an orange clown of an old man instead of just standard white old man.
Yeah and you see a lot of stuff that's like, in one of the first news threads we were in someone was like, "Just bring up Tiananmen Square, that'll make 'em go away," (and get absolutely dogpiled) and today I saw someone post that copypasta with the Chinese characters that's supposed to dispel Chinese bots or agents, and it's like, those things never work. They have to know they never work. It really is just an article of faith, it's clutching your beads and repeating a mantra until the demons leave you alone.
I guess they technically work in a sense. Like yeah, if someone goes:
"Tinyman square yogurt genocide checkmate tankies."
Yeah, I'll probably just leave them alone. They aren't worth talking to.
Though it is the internet debate equivalent of shitting your pants to get everyone else to leave the room. They just don't understand how they aren't actually "winning" so much as they are "not worth wasting time interacting with."
Yeah I think a bit of the "secretly right-wing" is about morality. It also is about authority and not really thought out concepts of violence and force. There also is the "intention" and "effect" thing going on with sane-ism. Parenti and Lenin said lots of it well, too.
Incredible bit idea though, getting a bunch of
on estrogen for 3 years learning about queer theory to stick it to the libs
Trying to figure out if I can use this irl, like, "No, see, I'm only transitioning to act as a deep cover operative so I can find and expose the grooming rings, can I count on your cooperation in keeping up my disguise by calling me by a different name and pronouns?"
This sounds kinda gay, I'm in
CW: antisemitism
Even at the peak of the the bizarre frenworld stuff when they tried their damnedest to keep the mask on there'd be a happy merchant or triple parens in every thread
Also I spend too much time here I started spelling "bullshit" B-O-L-S-H from transcribing my inner monologue.