Seems like this is really what it comes down to. The idea of helping less fortunate people appeals to them, as long as it doesn't materially affect their lives in anyway whatsoever.

You could get someone to agree with you on all of the ways socialism can help the less fortunate and vulnerable - but if that would require them to live in a more modest house or apartment, take public transportation, and give up some luxury consumer goods -- no can do, Jack.

Is there any way to even fix this? How can you make people realize they'd still be happier and better off because they'd be living in a more communal society that actually valued human life, they just might not be able to buy a new iphone every year.

  • ami [they/them,he/him]
    1·
    4 years ago

    I think that one thread where OP made the case that it's easier to reach chuds than it is libs was spot on. I live in the rural south. Lots of well off libs that have too much invested in the status quo, lots of old money chuds too but also a fuck ton of disenfranchised poor that have been conditioned to misdirect their anger at the "others" or whatever boogeyman is in the news.

    I've worked a fuck ton of jobs up from digging up tree stumps to office IT work. The people nose deep in the shit were way easier to convert than the ones in the more comfy jobs. Libs would complain about the republicans or some outrage piece in the news but when I'd suggest an alternative they'd quickly dismiss it and say the solution was to vote blue. The folks at the "lower" jobs were more receptive to alternate ideas as long as I didn't let any scary communist terms slip in. I think the left's future is on converting the rural working class. I kind of think libs are a lost cause. I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

    • Janked [he/him]
      1·
      4 years ago

      I'm not sure about this from a strategic perspective though, I don't know if we can afford to completely discount every lib as a lost cause. I agree that the rural working class is likely more easily radicalized, but there are still plenty of working class liberals (especially millennials) that as you mentioned, have misplaced trust in institutions (that I would argue continues to be eroded away by the realities of material conditions) but have been subject to so much anti-communist propaganda that they legitimately don't believe it would be a good alternative.

      Yes, there are those brunch-obsessed liberals that only care about themselves, and it's fair to write them off, but even while working in my most white collar office jobs I've encountered plenty of people that are struggling and I would say are firmly working class, they would absolutely benefit from socialism, but don't see it as a viable alternative, and I think that's the challenge we have.

      I was listening to the Red Menace Podcast on Lenin's "What Is To Be Done?" and something they mentioned that I found very true is that most people aren't as politically active as we are, and honestly don't have a desire to be, and that's okay -- that's why we need a Vanguard Party, so the people that want to be incredibly involved in organizing, teaching, leading, and fighting can be leaders in the party, and those that want to support it but can't or don't want to be as involved can be members of the party and offer support in whatever ways they can. We're just so far away from this step right now, and I wish I knew how to get us there.