counterpoint: he knew that orcs were sus and struggled with it, also he made a point of having a character muse on the essential humanity and victimhood of the non-white "barbarian" humans coerced into fighting for Sauron
counter-counterpoint: dwarves are a secretive, small, bearded, gold-and-jewel-hoarding people with a language based on Hebrew
Counter-counter-counterpoint: I think Tolkien draws on a lot of european-based traditions and myths about dwarves. Which, maybe those have some basis in anti-semitism, not sure. But I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as that Rowling TERF who clearly made goblins based directly on jewish stereotypes.
Yes, goblins are portrayed as antisemitic caricatures to the point that there are Jewish people who ask gentiles to not use goblins in their stories. That doesn't make what Rowling did any less antisemitic or sus.
I was not aware people complained about goblins outside of Harry Potter, that's interesting. I think my point still stands though, also it's understandable to ask and expect people not to use goblins, it's also easy to see why J. K. Rowling got away with it: she depicted goblins the way they typically are depicted, and it's more in the realm of "unfortunate implications" than "purposefully vile worldbuilding".
I'm doing a re-read right now for the first time in many years. Mostly it's just hiking and people saying "a really long time ago there was cool shit here but now it's gone"
Dwarves aren't really secretive at all, in the actual book they're some of the most prolific travelers in Middle Earth, and you'll see dwarves popping everywhere you go.
They also have names for themselves in their own language that they don't share with outsiders, and consider it distasteful at best to teach their language to others.
counterpoint: he knew that orcs were sus and struggled with it, also he made a point of having a character muse on the essential humanity and victimhood of the non-white "barbarian" humans coerced into fighting for Sauron
counter-counterpoint: dwarves are a secretive, small, bearded, gold-and-jewel-hoarding people with a language based on Hebrew
Counter-counter-counterpoint: I think Tolkien draws on a lot of european-based traditions and myths about dwarves. Which, maybe those have some basis in anti-semitism, not sure. But I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as that Rowling TERF who clearly made goblins based directly on jewish stereotypes.
yeah tolkien's dwarves might be a tad sus but they're not rowling's hook-nosed banking goblins, that's for sure
Sounds a lil too sus :stalin-shining:
I still don't understand how she got away with that
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I think it's just how goblins are/were typically portrayed and is not something J.K. Rowling made up to mock Jewish people.
Yes, goblins are portrayed as antisemitic caricatures to the point that there are Jewish people who ask gentiles to not use goblins in their stories. That doesn't make what Rowling did any less antisemitic or sus.
I was not aware people complained about goblins outside of Harry Potter, that's interesting. I think my point still stands though, also it's understandable to ask and expect people not to use goblins, it's also easy to see why J. K. Rowling got away with it: she depicted goblins the way they typically are depicted, and it's more in the realm of "unfortunate implications" than "purposefully vile worldbuilding".
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I'm doing a re-read right now for the first time in many years. Mostly it's just hiking and people saying "a really long time ago there was cool shit here but now it's gone"
I do love it though
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Dwarves aren't really secretive at all, in the actual book they're some of the most prolific travelers in Middle Earth, and you'll see dwarves popping everywhere you go.
They also have names for themselves in their own language that they don't share with outsiders, and consider it distasteful at best to teach their language to others.