I am hearing really scary things in the wake of the beheading of that teacher. Is Macron starting an all out persecution campaign against Muslims?

I'd especially appreciate input by French chapos.

  • RandomWords [he/him]
    3·
    4 years ago

    none of these comment posts, nor my context links out of my own bio ever actually link to the comment here, it's gotta be some kind of bug. it always just takes me to the top of the whole post.

    that said, i think antm17 is missing a lot of the nuance. he's over simplifying the situation, but still has a point in that you shouldn't get your head cut off for literally doing your job, that job is as a teacher in literally a class about freedom of speech.

    Paty taught a moral and civic education course in early October 2020 on freedom of expression, in accord with the French national curriculum.During his class he showed some of his teenage students a caricature of Muhammad from the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo during a class discussion about freedom of speech. Before showing the caricature, Paty had invited Muslim students to leave the classroom if they wished. According to one student, he had previously shown these cartoons as part of the discussion every year since the Charlie Hebdo shooting in 2015. For many Muslims, any depiction of Muhammad is blasphemous.

    yes, rather tasteless, also quite relevant to the topic, especially considering the local relevance.

      • RandomWords [he/him]
        8·
        4 years ago

        at that point it becomes a much larger conversation about what makes up a religion, how willing you are to adhere to rules of said religion, especially as a non adherent, who gets to make up rules of a religion, etc.

        if you're trying to force me to adhere to a religion, i would say that you can fuck right off yourself.

        i personally am not for blatantly trying to be bigoted and going about anything that would put someone in a position where they feel they are being blasphemous, but when you have a fucking rule in your religion that puts its adherents to the point where they are forced to murder over cartoons, i think that personally is a shitty fucking stupid fucking rule.

          • RandomWords [he/him]
            5·
            4 years ago

            "this is about..." "don't make it about."

            so fuck nuance huh? no.

                  • RandomWords [he/him]
                    6·
                    4 years ago

                    fascism is when you defend killing people for not adhering to your rules

                      • RandomWords [he/him]
                        6·
                        4 years ago

                        by saying fuck nuance and attacking the idea of defending the position of free speech.

                          • RandomWords [he/him]
                            5·
                            4 years ago

                            criticizing aspects of a religion is not being a racist piece of shit. first off, lots of different races adhere to islam, second, if you can't criticize something over fear of getting your head cut off, that's a shitty rule, and to defend it is fascism. fuck you.

                              • RandomWords [he/him]
                                5·
                                4 years ago

                                that's not what we're arguing, we're arging about a teacher getting their head cut off for teaching a class about freedom of expression, fuck you.

                                  • RandomWords [he/him]
                                    2·
                                    4 years ago

                                    that said, i think antm17 is missing a lot of the nuance. he’s over simplifying the situation, but still has a point in that you shouldn’t get your head cut off for literally doing your job, that job is as a teacher in literally a class about freedom of speech.

                                          • RandomWords [he/him]
                                            2·
                                            4 years ago

                                            criticizing a rule in islam doesn't make you islamophobic. criticizing the law that "if you're gay in Christianity you should go to hell" doesn't make you christophobic.

                                                  • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                    1·
                                                    4 years ago

                                                    you didn't joke about a lack of nuance, you threw nuance to the fucking wolves and proceeded on with your bullshit

                                                      • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                        2·
                                                        4 years ago

                                                        your bullshit being lumping anyone who criticizes any aspect of something into being "____-phobic"

                                                          • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                            3·
                                                            4 years ago

                                                            This is about calling out racism and islamaphobia. Don’t make it about you being “forced to adhere to a religion” whatever the fuck that means. It’s about showing respect for a persecuted minority.

                                                              • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                                2·
                                                                4 years ago

                                                                yes, you said that in regard to fair nuanced criticism. you lumped it in with islamophobia. you have shitty politics from an egotistical idpol perspective. fuck you. hard.

                                                                  • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                                    1·
                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                    I literally want the french state and its media to stop persecuting muslims.

                                                                    me too.

                                                                    If you want that persecution to continue, please continue this thread.

                                                                    this is where you are fucked. criticizing cutting off a teachers head and how it pertains to a stupid rule doesn't promote the continuation of the previous position. this is where you're missing the nuance, and where you become fucking wrong.

                                                                        • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                                          1·
                                                                          4 years ago

                                                                          i just don't think that the original user we were having this conversation about meant anything besides that it's not cool to cut teachers heads off for teaching about free speech, and you lumped him in with being an islamophob, probably due to your passion of hatred of bigotry.

                                                                            • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                                              1·
                                                                              4 years ago

                                                                              that's agreeable to me, and i think a fucking country should definitely take the same position that we take on it, but i can at least recognize that it's a stupid fucking rule in the first place, and the mention of how stupid it is should go hand in hand with the discussion in the first place.

                                                                                • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                                                  1·
                                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                                  because that dumb shit rule that old dudes care still leads to the teachers getting their heads cut off, which is fucked.

                                                                                  it needs to be mentioned that that shit should be changed, that the extremists are wrong in doing that shit in the first place, as well as people who antagonize them in first place.

                                                                                  and lumping everyone who criticizes it into being an islamphob even contributes to the perpetuation of the extremism in the first place.

                                                                                  extremists/fundamentalists should be criticized right along side bigots, because they're both shitty takes.

                                                                                    • RandomWords [he/him]
                                                                                      1·
                                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                                      because you began by attacking someone who criticized it, and then attacked even the idea of a nuanced position and looking at the different perspectives of the conversation.

                                                                                      i'm not using anything as 'evidence' and i'm coming to a better understanding of your position, but you need to explain clearly how you feel about shit, as in

                                                                                      the mention of how stupid it is should go hand in hand with the discussion in the first place.

                          • Rev [none/use name]
                            8·
                            4 years ago

                            You do realise that racists look funny at Muslims not because they're Muslims, right? A dark skinned devout Catholic would get just as many dirty looks and slurs coming their way. A knucklehead like yourself mindlessly promoting the sanctity of Islam here is awfully patronising to Arabs and Africans, since it heavily implies that Islam is somehow inherent to them and is the only legit way for them to find solidarity and fight oppression.