The general population does not even see capitalism as a specific system, but rather "natural" like the birds or the trees i.e not anything to give a second thought about.
Leftists treat the military in the same way. Despite being aware that it has always acted as the primary tool of the ruling classes throughout history, too many leftists, even "revolutionary" ones, think of it as an institution that must necessarily exist.
This explains why there is no serious materialist or Marxist analysis of the military itself in academia. This is a mistake, in my opinion. No military = no ruling class. It's that simple. We should focus our ideological and practical efforts on forming a people's militia and taking real power(guns, tanks, planes etc) in our hands. That is true "revolutionary" action.
This is not me being blackpilled and I'm not a fed, I'm simply stating the truth. Any leftist political action that isnt arming and organising itself with the open intent of military action is useless. Thanks for listening to my FED talk.
"No military = no ruling class."
That's kind of a problem if you want the proletariat to be the ruling class.
Are you being intentionally dense? That statement is made in the context that past ruling classes couldnt exist without a military. Of course an armed proletariat that takes over the military would be the ruling class itself.
but what happens to the entirety of military weapons/etc..? they will still exist, and communists cant just take them all
What do you mean by "communists cant take them all"? Why do you think only communists should be taking them? All people take the entirety of weapons.
You're giving an example of organizations doing illegal shit. Organizing a militia isn't illegal. It's a right protected by the constitution. You don't need the entire working class on your side before starting one, that is just lazily putting the task to a later date. There are already millions of socialists in the US. More people will join us when they see socialists being serious.
Do you really believe that the American state actually cares about the constitution more than performatively? If you are not a threat they will ignore you. The moment you become dangerous to capital, even in a minor capacity is the moment that all stops mattering. COINTELPRO is not going to consider whether you have a "constitutional right" to organize a militia, they will be too busy planning hits, drawing up other charges, infiltrating, and inciting criminal incidents from within. Your "rights" mean nothing. Without strong mass support this is adventurism. The many socialists in the US, and those people more will not be informed by the actual character of a movement not based in mass support either. They will be informed by bourgeois press. The press will uncritically print what the American state tells them to. Without the support of the masses these are "terrorist cells", and the masses will not defend or aid them.
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Negative consequences are not a valid excuse against necessary actions. Yes COINTELPRO will try to wreck, but their tactics are well known, and can be countered.
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Mass movements don't arise magically from nowhere. They begin as small movements. The same is true of mass militias.
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Negative press is not a bad thing for socialists. The default opinion of the population is already negative. Bad press will lead to curiosity and involvement. You can utilize bad press as propaganda, to get the message further ahead. Bad press is not fatal.
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I'm not saying that we should actively take over the military, I'm saying that we need to begin a militia with the long term plan of doing so. So mass support is not a necessity for the moment.
All I'm saying is, you have to start at some point, and there is no real reason not to right now.
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It is functionally illegal, the constitution is a piece of paper. You're falling into an ultra-left trap and getting far too ahead of where the masses are at. If you brought your ideas into action, it would just be the Weather Underground or Austin Red Guard all over again.
The military doesn't do anything actively to show their power. Yet they have power all the same. This is what I mean. I never mentioned that we actually need to do anything. All i said is we need to form a militia.
The Red Guards are good example of adventurism because they had a specific program and ideology and do stupid shit like disrupt DSA meetings. What I'm suggesting is we start something without any specific ideology and that doesn't actually do anything other than grow in size and concentrate power.
What I’m suggesting is we start something without any specific ideology and that doesn’t actually do anything other than grow in size and concentrate power
that creates an institution rife for opportunism and liberal or even fascistic co-opting, if it even got to that size since the repressive arms of the state will use agent provocateurs, bad jacketing, false flag attacks, etc. to justify labeling the militia a terrorist organisation and promptly round up the leaders. The working class movement must be grounded in what the working class actually want and are ready to do, and as of right now that does not involve creating extremely organised militias (although some cities are probably prepared for the nascent stages of that development, which are community self-defence clubs)
just so you know, if imperialists are ousted from power, their highest grade military weapons dont magically disappear
When did I ever imply that? Have you even read my post? I said that we should be taking the military's weapons in our hands
Comrade, I read your post and the answers you gave in here, I would strongly urge you to do a bit of self critique and listen to what was written in this thread. There are a few things I did infer about your current position in life, material conditions, age, etc. they amount to me believing there is growth potential for you if you try to become more collectivist in your daily actions as long as your material conditions enable that.
It might be advantageous to have clusters of people you talk and listen to, people with whom you try to do clear cut anticapitalist actions to gain a bit experience in working with people and taking their perspective into account. Those don't have to be very public or public at all.
During covid this isn't quite easy to achieve, unless you go to school.
That said some famous communists did say things like "political power stems from the barrel of a gun" several decades ago. While it is right and holds cores that are true, to think that "any political power" stems from the barrel of the gun is reductionist, also. Militant action might become important, but on the same hand we have a hundred years of experience that militancy of unorganized or clandestine groups that are not having material support don't advance the class interests of the organized working class (which is an actor in class struggle, unlike an unorganized working class, or individuals who as subjects are not able to change the system on their own – which generates the need for collective actions in a sense). We also saw that unlike the RAF thought or exactly like its presented in 'Disco Elysium' the masses don't spontaneously revolt when there are acts of individual political violence. That said sometimes I look fondly on some results, like when the Fascist heir to the Spanish Dictatorship decided to fly into the air with his car included (Luis Carrero Blanco), we have on no point in the US a situation which is comparable to Fascist Spain though (I am aware that some Trotzkists don't view Spain during that time as Fascist, an analysis I can theoretically follow, but disagree with), that means that there is no reason, even not with Trump, to try individual terrorism. Even in the case of Spain it wasn't an act of an individual, like the communist Georg Elser, who as a lone actor tried to bomb Hitler and the main Nazi leaders away, but of an organized movement.
There are some ideas about people's armies that control their weapon caches on their own. This is in my opinion a discussion (if it is in favor of abolishing the (US) military) that currently is based in idealism, not materialism, cause there is no thinkable path that would really abolish the military. Which means it can be criticized, but any try to dissolve would lead to an immense reaction (with capital r in the sense political reactionary and anti revolutionary).
What can be expected is a rise in socialist popular groups, a rise in fascist and right extreme movements, political actors and individuals. For that reason I would like to strongly advocate for self defense and building your affinity groups (important concept and good practice).
For your analysis of class conflicts next to the ever presented theory here you might want to look into An Empirical Analysis of the Rise of Fascism in Italy in the inter war years (I suggest reading up to the data and the discussion in the end). While the working class has unifying class interests there were petit bourgeois, land owners and capitalists who stood against socialist change. Who are on your side today? Try to keep up your networks with them and actors that speak for them. More important than theoretical purity is a net of mutual trust and shared past that doesn't easily break with shocks to come. That net is to be spun and strengthened over the next one, two decades and you have to survive in capitalism during that time. We are leading a long campaign and as such it is important that we don't get lost on the way. The IRA did not plan to do maximum carnage, the Vietcong didn't plan for maximum carnage, they planned to get out of missions alive and make it costly for the others to keep their campaigns up. That means the main target in any situation was to get out alive, to be able to keep on fighting. Plan for the long run in life as in operations.
There is nothing in your post that I don't know, but thanks for the patronizing drivel . My point is that leftist disinterest in the military and correlated lack of theory leads to ineffective action and grave errors.
For example, leftists constantly talk about the exploitation of the ruling class without giving any material basis as to why the ruling class is able to exploit in the first place. Few leftists say "the capitalists controls the military and police which protect property rights through force, which allow the ruling class to exploit workers". Instead, leftists say "the capitalists exploit the workers by owning property and hence the product of labor". This second explanation is idealism, it doesnt explain the mechanism which makes people fail to see the connection and fail to see how they are being exploited.
Similiarly we have seen leftists defending communist countries like the USSR, NK or China saying that they were not authoritarian because people could vote. This fails to see that the authoritarianism is actually due to the consolidation of their armies, from a genuine people's militia that overthrew the ruling class, into an exclusionary body that answered to the state rather than being democratically controlled. Thus, even though USSR, NK or China were "democracies" in the sense that people could vote, just like in capitalist countries, people had no real power because, like I keep repeating, power is actually a material thing that comes from owning weapons and controlling an organised force, i.e. the military. This is the true source of authoritarianism.
It's also why anarchists are so dumb when they whine about "statism". A state in the sense of a body of civil servants without a military has no power at all. It is not the state that anarchists should fight against, it is the military.
Perhaps I should mention that my statement about what people should do was a bit presumptious. I don't mean to set the program for the left, I just wanted to suggest that maybe some of us can move on from electoralism, or "community building" or running soup kitchens or "raising awareness" or "helping the working class" etc etc (all of which are good and worthwhile things in their own right), but to something more substantial. Something permanent, something that is legal(despite claims of adventurism), something that gives us true power. Just a suggestion.
Few leftists say “the capitalists controls the military and police which protect property rights through force
wot
There is nothing in your post that I don’t know, but thanks for the patronizing drivel
I want to repeat my post on this point. I believe there are plenty of good seeds in what you write, though a lot of things I disagree with, though theoretical debates based on texts and references don't really strengthen us in my opinion at this place and with you as target audience.
