genuinely curious what ya'll think, i apologize in advance for the struggle session this might start lmao

  • shrewchops [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    No? Trotsky was rejected for party leadership because Stalin managed to wrangle enough votes to put himself in charge, a good chunk of who voted for him because they thought he would be easier to control than Trotsky.

    • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Trotsky was always a wrecher though, especially when he formed a block with Kaminev and Zinoviev.

      In October 1926, the leaders of the opposition strutted about and asserted, as they are asserting now, that the Central Committee feared the truth, that it was hiding their "platform," concealing it from the Party, and so forth. That is why they went snooping among the Party units in Moscow (recall the Aviapribor Factory), in Leningrad (recall the Putilov Works), and other places. Well, what happened? The communist workers gave our oppositionists a good drubbing, such a drubbing indeed that the leaders of the opposition were compelled to flee from the battlefield. Why did they not at that time dare to go farther, to all the Party units, to ascertain which of us fears the truth—the opposition or the Central Committee? It was because they got cold feet, being frightened by the real (and not imaginary) truth.

      There's some good stuff about Kaminev and Zinoviev in there too, that passage just kinda stuck out as something showing how no one really liked those guys.

      • shrewchops [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        You realise that that quote... doesn't actually say anything about Trotsky's character, right? Like if you want to highlight his wrecker tendencies, you could indeed point to his propensity for making new factions all the damn time, but this is a speech made by Stalin about Trotsky after Trotsky was defeated. It is not a reliable source of Trotsky's actual character and popularity.

        • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Yeah, the rest of that speech goes deep into Trotsky. I just quoted that to show that the workers themselves didn't broadly support Trotsky. If they did, they wouldn't have literally beat his opposition bloc up and driven them out of town.

          • Classic_Agency [he/him,comrade/them]
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            4 years ago

            I just quoted that to show that the workers themselves didn’t broadly support Trotsky

            From Stalin, who had a vested interest in keeping Trotsky from gaining any power... Right...

            • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              He literally talks about how he doesn't want to have power and tried to step down in that speech.

              It is said that in that "will" Comrade Lenin suggested to the congress that in view of Stalin's "rudeness" it should consider the question of putting another comrade in Stalin's place as General Secretary. That is quite true. Yes, comrades, I am rude to those who grossly and perfidiously wreck and split the Party. I have never concealed this and do not conceal it now. Perhaps some mildness is needed in the treatment of splitters, but I am a bad hand at that. At the very first meeting of the plenum of the Central Committee after the Thirteenth Congress I asked the plenum of the Central Committee to release me from my duties as General Secretary. The congress itself discussed this question. It was discussed by each delegation separately, and all the delegations unanimously, including Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev, obliged Stalin to remain at his post.

              What could I do? Desert my post? That is not in my nature; I have never deserted any post, and I have no right to do so, for that would be desertion. As I have already said before, I am not a free agent, and when the Party imposes an obligation upon me, I must obey.

              A year later I again put in a request to the plenum to release me, but I was again obliged to remain at my post.

              He also talks about how he gave Trotsky more slack than most people wanted.

              At the last plenum of the Central Committee and Central Control Commission, held in August this year, some members of the plenum rebuked me for being too mild with Trotsky and Zinoviev, for advising the plenum against the immediate expulsion of Trotsky and Zinoviev from the Central Committee. (Voices from the audience: "That's right, and we rebuke you now.") Perhaps I was too kind then and made a mistake in proposing that a milder line be adopted towards Trotsky and Zinoviev. (Voices: "Quite right!" Comrade Petrovsky: "Quite right. We shall always rebuke you for a rotten 'piece of string'!") But now, comrades, after what we have gone through during these three months, after the opposition has broken the promise to dissolve its faction that it made in its special "declaration" of August 8, thereby deceiving the Party once again, after all this, there can be no more room at all for mildness. We must now step into the front rank with those comrades who are demanding that Trotsky and Zinoviev be expelled from the Central Committee. (Stormy applause. Voices: "Quite right! Quite right!" A voice from the audience: "Trotsky should be expelled from the Party.") Let the congress decide that, comrades.

              Or was he just making this all up and lying to the people he was taking to? Purple who would have been really able to call him out on a lie.