1. You are a citizen working in a factory.

  2. You are the General Secretary.

What would you have done from both these perspectives?

  • kristina [she/her]
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    4 years ago
    1. jack shit cause thats what the average citizen could do about it

    2. stalinist purge of the sfsr leadership for corruption (make up bogus claims if i have to, theyll do corruption soon enough. start with russia), arming of the unions specifically the hardest working party loyalists, crushing the black market through significant legalizations, producing drugs at the state level, helping addicts with anti-addiction meds, development of a cybersyn and expand worker cooperatives in various sectors, put the red army to manual labor and infrastructure building and note the hardest workers and give them control of key equipment, steal and produce western commodities in an effort to undercut smuggling and destablize western corporations by selling them cheaper to the west via focusing on automation, get someone to kill gorbachev on national television and give that guy a medal, and finally, stabilize yugoslavia and normalize relations with them & same with china

    • HarryLime [any]
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      4 years ago

      All this, plus building more rail to remove industrial bottlenecks, replace aging Stalin-era megafactories with smaller, efficient factories with modern machine tools, removing price controls on low-margin spare parts and certain consumer goods, make it policy for ethnic Russians to learn local languages and when they immigrate to other SSRs, crack down on radical nationalists while maintaining the traditional policy of having members of native ethnicities head their local parties, loosen restrictions on intra-party discussions and criticisms of the party while maintaining the party's leading role, revitalize the Soviets so that they provide genuine feedback and oversight and not a rubber stamp on policy, cutting military spending and changing the policy on the cold war to maintaining deterrence while sacrificing polarity, and make ending the Sino-Soviet split the #1 diplomatic priority. Also order a safety review of RBMK nuclear reactors, and research thorium reactors and nuclear fusion.

      • kristina [she/her]
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        4 years ago

        imagine if we had a strong china and ussr right now. 2 super powers vs 1. no im definitely fucking mad. all they had to do is the fucking waiting game and they couldnt do that right

        • HarryLime [any]
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          4 years ago

          Exactly, they only had to hold out until the 2010s! The Soviets lost faith in their ideology because they expected another great depression after WW2 and underestimated the resources of the capitalist world to keep the system going, but the systemic crises they were waiting for is happening right now!

          • kristina [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            like my opinion is big things like great depressions only occur due to massive outbreaks of diseases, they didnt have anything super huge outside of maybe polio post ww2. like if coronavirus happened pre ww2 i actually think it would have been worse than the spanish flu

          • weshallovercum [any]
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            4 years ago

            The Soviet Union didn't collapse due to "loss of faith in ideology", it was straight up dismantled by opportunists.

            • HarryLime [any]
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              4 years ago

              The opportunists got their opportunity to dismantle the union because the ideological coherence and faith was deeply shaken in many sectors of the Party and some sectors of society by the mid 80s, a phenomenon that started with Khrushchev's secret speech. It's why Gorbachev had the political capital to take the Union in a revisionist, capitalist direction.

  • JoeySteel [comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    The rot was too deep

    The cold war had produced a fear in both (all) citizens of a nuclear war

    The Soviets were made to think that if they dropped the communism then the West would embrace Russia as a long lost friend

    Instead they ratfucked Russia, propping up Yeltsin who wouldnt have been able to destroy the Ussr without US help (he dissolved parliament against the democratic wishes then took control in a coup and had to murder 3000 communists on the streets and shell parliament)

    By ddoing so they caused the deaths of 12 million Russians (according the Lancet - USAs most prestigious medical journal)

    The experience Russia had during the 90s was of a population in such despair as if theyd lost a war. No other country has experienced such devastation in peace time

    And it was because...of the restoration of capitalism

    History goes in zigs and zags its not a straight line.

    There's a reason today Stalin statues are going up all over Russia

    Speaking of which this one just went up in South Ossetia

    https://preview.redd.it/icucqgznjfv51.jpg?width=531&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7b8596bf83163f7d9f56cde38b6425cd202c181

    • Mardoniush [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      Just to emphasise, the fall of the SU probably killed more people than every Soviet-era famine put together.

    • Rev [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      WW2 was a major factor as well. One could argue that despite appearances the Soviet Union never managed to completely recover from the horrendous losses suffered in that war - the loss of committed cadres, the loss of unstoppable can do optimism, the loss of innocence which made the leadership paranoid about security thus hampering a balanced economic development, every undertaking needing to simultaneously serve the secondary purpose of defence application. Had that war been won earlier, more decisively and at a fraction of the human and infrastructural cost things could have gone differently.

      • JoeySteel [comrade/them]
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        4 years ago

        Yes ww2 did a number on the Ussr

        The best and most committed marxist-leninsts were basically the first to die

  • CommieGirl69 [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    nothing, by the final years the tide was already too strong

    but i'd point out that i dislike how people blame gorbachev for everything, or blame party revisionism - which is always a very dubious concept to me

    two factors are key, 1) that the short term pressure of simply managing to survive in an extremely hostile environment and facing another great war made stalin have to shut down the NEP, and 2) that the party distanced itself from the people (which is also influenced by 1, as it becomes increasingly hard to be democratic under constant siege)

    if i could blame anyone, it would be brezhnev, his blind conservatism was responsible for setting up the conditions for all the problems in the 80s

    but again, it's bad to blame a single personality as they were just actors inside a very complex historical process - for instance, i see brezhnev as a representative and a product of the party's already existing conservatism, not someone responsible for it

    anyway, all the still existing socialist states have succeeded in avoiding letting all these issues come together in that perfect storm that destroyed the USSR - it's not about revisionism (whatever the hell that means) nor the actions of a single individual

  • ocho [they/them]
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    4 years ago

    Sorry if I get a few things wrong but it's been a while since I've effort posted and looked up USSR history so umm:

    I think at that point it'll probably be too late to do anything. So much of the Communist Party has already been consolidated by revisionists and self-interested fucks, not to mention active subversion by the American intelligence apparatus and the failure that was Afghanistan, that it rendered itself impotent. Without a party to guide the people, they became aimless and disorganized, unable to organize themselves while the party crumbled under it's own incompetency.

    You would probably have to go right after Stalin's death to ensure Khrushchev doesn't start with his secret speech bullshit and do what Stalin originally planned, to further democratize and involve the masses into their economy and it's planning, which would've rendered Party organization wholly irrelevant in the way that it existed while pushing the USSR to a higher phase of socialism. The way to do that would've been the All-State Automated System, or OGAS but by the time it was technologically feasible, it was denied funding because, of course, the revisionists felt it would threaten Party control of the economy at the time it was being opened up and liberalized.

  • ssjmarx [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    1: V O T E

    Just kidding. I acquire a weapon, find Gorbachev, and murder him. This might not save the Soviet Union, but I figure he has a 100% chance of destroying it while whoever replaces him will have a less than 100% chance of destroying it, so it's probably my best bet. Plus, since it isn't a conspiracy there isn't a huge chance of the KGB finding out what I'm up to until it's too late - stochastic, individual acts of terror are very difficult to stop.

    2: If I'm the General Secretary, I assume that means I have the political base to push some kind of agenda, because without the support of a large faction you're going to eventually end up inside the Russian White House getting blown up by Yeltsin's tanks.

    So the way I see it the primary problem within the party is that it was far too calcified. The people were aware of the staggering excess of the first world in the 1980s, and the leadership was too set in their ways to consider any kind of economic agenda that might attempt to deliver something comparable to them. As Parenti put it, the USSR never properly transitioned away from siege socialism towards "consumer socialism", and I would make that transition my goal.

    Step one is to churn new people from all walks of life into the Party. Institute mandatory retirement for party officials after a certain number of years of service, mandatory replacement for comrades whose careers don't advance after a certain amount of time, and widespread recruitment and expansion of regional branches of the CPSU and government. I want it to be like China, where every workplace has at least one Party representative who can act like a union/government rep, and where Party officials start out their career in government by doing things like outreach to the poorest rural areas of the Union. I expect this will be chaotic while it's being implemented, but should breathe new life into the USSR's political ecosystem.

    Step two is to transition some of the industrial albatrosses around the USSR's neck into "light industry", ie washing machines and plastic shit. Reduce the amount of military spending, convert military factories into consumer goods factories, and give more flexibility to people on the ground to control production. I'm hoping that this will turn into the kind of noticeable quality of life increase that generates broad support among people who don't follow politics too closely - if your life seems to be getting better, you probably don't want things to change.

  • Rev [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    As a citizen worker try to create a co-op, if very lucky force our way into completely taking over the factory. Also try to establish ties to or build up from the ground a crime syndicate. Basically think Baath party members creating their own crime networks in Iraq post-invasion to try and preserve the cadres. Then wait out the storm and try to expand the business. In other words a version of Mondragon but with an armed wing protecting its assets and mandatory ideological indoctrination for all members. Pretty bleak but the only thing that has any chance of autonomy in Yeltsin's and Putin's Russia.

    As the General Secretary: a massive purge combined with populism dialled up to 11 and eventually hard technocratic reforms (as opposed to market based reforms).

    The whole system was almost terminally calcified and rotten and apathic so high chances that maybe nothing could have helped. The timing would have been crucial. If we are talking 88-89 then probably completely hopeless, beyond either outright inviting the Chinese Communist Party to take over (could spark civil war or at least the breaking away of some republics and majority of the Warsaw Pact allies) or doing the Yeltsin thing and spearheading the transition to full blown market economy in the hopes that you can at least turn it into something akin to the current Czech Republic/Estonia/Lithuania (will probably get assassinated). If we are talking 84/85 then salvation is still possible. If we are talking 82 - still problematic but chances not that bad anymore.

    A lot depends on how many allies within the system you can still count on.

    The primary objective would be to create a power block that can quickly amputate the metastasizing parts of the party (and especially the armed state orgs). A new CheKa of sorts. This would be accompanied by promoting the younger talented officers (whose careers are getting stalled by the elderly plutocrats) to senior positions in both the military, the KGB and the police.

    At the same time establish as much direct contact to the populace as possible - Chavez style Q&A TV and radio programmes, frequent appearances among the masses and Fidel like speeches outlining a clear path and roadmap for the immediate future. This should be quickly followed by promoting more democratic participation and self-organisation of many aspects of society. The commanding heights should remain untouchable but a lot of low level organising of society should transition to a bottom-up and not top-down way of doing things. In terms of propaganda promote usership instead of ownership, in terms of operations promote entrepreneurship on a small scale (think artisans and such).

    Once a certain baseline of stability and loyalty has been secured the highest priority should be the implementation of OGAS and holonic restructuring of industry. (Re)introduction of Tektology/Systems Theory thinking into all socio-organisational decisions. The importance of this is even bigger than the Soviet A-bomb and the space programme combined. Over time this will ensure that private entrepreneurship will not lead to a runaway effect but allow people to be freely creative and enterprising while being tightly integrated into the overall economy. The goal here is economic planning and control by the state but private innovation (the fruits of which are mandatorily shared). A huge windfall and support can be expected (as was the case when Gorbachev just took power) from the enterprising individuals in factories, R&D centres, the arts etc. who have been growing increasingly frustrated and resentful of all of their initiatives getting bogged down by the overreaching bureaucracy by massively easing up of nonsense censorship and self-sabotaging secrecy, where many inventions/optimisations were either outright rejected or filed away never to see the light of day again. Basically promote interdisciplinary and interdepartmental cooperation to the max. This includes declassifying of all but the most sensitive materials, creating an open source library of all engineering and scientific developments completely accessible by all (possibly with a certain minimal threshold in terms of credentials) and finally integrating all of the reliable socialist partner countries (Warsaw pact, DPRK, Cuba & Vietnam, Yemen and Afghanistan) into this network as well. On top of this (probably once OGAS comes online) establishing a prestige system - a sort of a social credit system but chiefly for expertise and prior industrial/operational success. This prestige system will serve as a basis for managerial promotion thus eliminating or at the the very least curtailing the re-appearance of corruption.

    In concert with this there would be a need for radical military and foreign aid reforms. The military needs to be downsized and made more efficient, the armament focus should go to strategic ABC forces as well as SpecOps and away from conventional ones. Mandatory service should be reduced to one year (it was 2 in the 80s) and restructured as to provide the recruits with proven specialised practical skills instead of being a cheap manpower fix. Women should probably do military service as well. An important part of the military service would be instilling a sense of civic duty to the society, initiative taking and the will to militancy at the appearance of subversion. This way if there is an attempted coup or such, the citizenry can be relied upon to stop it in its tracks. At the same time re-asses relations with other "socialist" states. The reliable ones should be integrated much more closely with the USSR in order to, in time, fuse to an international decision making body that will not be USSR and RSFSR dominated any more - think the EU but socialist. The less reliable ones - those who waved a red cloth to get those tasty investments - should either take unilateral steps to prove that they are actually moving in the right direction or be defunded, so the actual socialist countries can profit from the trade instead of sinking scarce resources into a bottomless pit. At the same time a large standing military that doesn't pay for itself is a huge waste. Since the already available hardware cannot just be quickly converted back into cash or industrial tools or raw materials they need to be used. As such foreign policy needs to become both more focused and more aggressive. Military operations that have a high chance of success should be carried out decisively, military aid to hopeless actors should be folded. The prioritising of the ABC strategic forces plays a major role in such aggressive policy as a blackmailing tool. If the Soviet Union can reliably erase from the face of the Earth its enemies then the enemies will rather give in than get liquidated, their imperialist ambitions notwithstanding. One such theatre of operations is Afghanistan and neighbouring Pakistan. An ultimatum can be issued to Pakistan, if ultimatum is not adhered to nukes it is. Similarly a decisive massed operation in coordination with the native South African insurgency can be executed to topple the South African Apartheid regime. If all enough resources and skill are present (and this is something one would know only as a general secretary) then Nicaragua-Ecuador-Guatemala-El Salvador could also be ripe for the taking.

    Re-establishment of ties with China. Infiltration and integration of Yugoslavia post Tito. Integration of Albania post Hoxha.

    Once things are running smoothly a "Chinese gambit" can be undertaken. Limited opening up of special economic zones for Western investment and relocation of Western factories. IMF and World Bank loans. After say 10 years expropriation of said factories and default on the loans - a big fat fuck you. What are they gonna do, start war and get nuked in return? Lmao. At the same time taking over of criminal organisations in the West and use hem to siphon off Western resources, sabotage Western economies and threaten/eliminate influential individuals under the guise of unrelated criminal activity.

    Push for a greater automation of industry.

  • HarryLime [any]
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    4 years ago

    How late are the "final years?"

    Anyway for 2, I wouldn't dislodge the Communist party from its leading role, which I would pinpoint as the #1 cause of the collapse.

  • Penis [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    Good question. There were a lot of balls up in the air at that time, so I think it would be hard to pinpoint a good course of action that could catch all of them. Because of that, I would probably aim for a harm reduction route and start by jacking off and freaking cumming everywhere.

  • Classic_Agency [he/him,comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    I would try form an underground union with the other workers with the goal of overthrowing the government and returning to Leninist principles. Of course I would not succeed, because no one did, but I would try. After the USSR collapses I attempt to turn the union into a communist party & militia with the goal of overthrowing the government. We would denounce and attack the CPRF for being reactionaries and hopefully fully discredit them in the eyes of the people, leaving ony our movement as the legit communists. Then after years of organising we attempt a general strike and violent insurrection during the 1998 economic crisis in which we bring the government to its knees, allowing us to storm the Kremlin with millions of workers marching in the cities of Russia supporting us.

    Assuming I got choosen to be general secretary instead of Gobachev, I would immediately begin a purge of the CPSU. People with capitalist and rectionary tendencies would be questioned and depending on how willing they would be to reform and support the new course, they would either undergo education or they would be removed from the party. People who are over retirement age would also be dismissed from their positions unless they are of exceptional use to the party. I would also use this purge as an excuse to promote as many women, ethnic minorities and young people into positions of power as possible, thereby destroying the gerontocracy and greatly diversifying the government.

    The next order of business would be to roll back the reforms implmented by Kosygin and Khrushchev. The use of the law of value would be greatly decreased in the economy, back to the levels it was under Stalin. The subsidy for technology would come back, replacing the 'temporary pricing' that ended up making new procurement of technology expensive. This would allow for rapid modernisation of the economy and for the USSR to begin catching up with the west again. The OGAS project would be restarted, billions of rubles dumped into the computer industry and the KGB instructed to infiltrate Apple, IBM and other American computer companies to steal technology in order for the USSR to catch up and evetually overtake the US in computing technology. The end goal being to create a computerised driven planned economy ala Cybersyn, which would massively increase efficiency and make the elimination of commodity production easy.

    I would begin a propaganda campaign intended to counter western influence and to reinstate Marxism and marxist thinking to the general population. The west would be attacked for its imperial tendencies and for its production of alienation and general immiseration of the working class with the goal of reminding soviet workers that although the west is richer, they do not necessarily live better. A big talking point would be American privatised healthcare. This opportunity would also be used to combat sexism, rape culture, homophobia (with the goal of decrimmialisation being realised within a few years), racism and other forms of chauvinism. Basically a cultural revolution if you will, intended to advance the consiousness of the people but without as much violence as the one that happened in Maoist China.

    In terms of foreign policy I would co-opt the solidarity movement in Poland using the KGB in order to turn it into a movement for the full realisation of socialism in the country. Their grievances would be understood to be the fault of revisionism and liberalism corrupting the pary and the parties lack of regard for the people. It would then be used to overthrow the Polish government and replace it with one that actually worked in the interests of the proletariat in poland. I would repeat this for Romania and Hungary. For China I would offer them an alliance to counter US imperialism however they would likely not accept. In Afghanistan I would attempt to build up the army of the government there as much as possible, and attempt to reduce overt soviet influence, giving the people more control over their government. The eventual goal being that the Afghans do not need Soviet troops to fight the war against the taliban as they have enough support from their own people and weapons.

    I would also create an organisation specifically for opposing westen imperialism that any country can join so long as they oppose the west. This organisation would give military and especially economic aid, reducting the effect of western sanctions. A new counter intelligence division would be created in the KGB with the express purpose of thwarting US and Western regime change operations in the global south. It would be used to prevent the overthrow of Thomas Sankara for example.

    For the Military I would place a cap on spending as a percentage of the budget, meaning the miltary budget would only be allowed to grow as the economy grows as the US military budget did at this time. This would allow the military budget to continue growing without sucking up resources.

    There is more I could write but I'm already at risk of writing a USSR alt history fan fic so I will leave it here.

  • Mardoniush [she/her]
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    4 years ago

    When is the POD? Are we trying to roll back perestroika or can we pop in in 1980 and modify old policy to be more workable? I mean as late as 1991 the SU could have survived in some form. It was a very near-run thing.

    The answer to both questions is "Shoot Yeltsin".