What did the moon landing actually materially bring humanity? Discuss.
distraction from the US's genocidal war in vietnam, laos, and cambodia
It was super fucking cool. That's a material improvement by itself.
The space program is not the reason why people are homeless or kids are hungry or whatever the fuck. Notably the Soviets did almost everything in space before we did and it didn't exact a horrible toll on their society. Putting a bunch of people with a certain kind of intelligence together and having them bash through problems that seem impossible is something every society should put capital towards, because it benefits everyone in often unexpected ways.
The space program was never anywhere near as expensive as the military, and we spend even less on it now. Every study on the return we got from this extremely modest investment has shown the same thing: the R&D from the space program resulted in an enormous variety of downstream technological developments. It can also be an extremely effective way to drive focus on issues that affect humanity as a whole, such as climate change.
The space program was never anywhere near as expensive as the military
That's not saying much.
the R&D from the space program resulted in an enormous variety of downstream technological developments
People say that about military spending all the time. Pretty much any major investment in anything will have knock-on benefits elsewhere. If we built a 10-mile high pyramid to house the remains of RBG, it would probably lead to some amazing breakthroughs in masonry and would create loads of jobs.
If the best reason you can come up with for doing something is that it will have some positive unintended side effects, then it's probably not a great idea. Like, you could just do those side effects directly.
Having said that, many unmanned missions have led directly to major scientific advances, not to mention improvements in communications and navigation. Manned spaceflight mostly exists for PR purposes and is nowhere near worth the expense or risk. Setting up a base on the moon or sending people to Mars would be literally pointless and I can't believe anyone with half a brain would even suggest it. About the only worthwhile thing humans can do in space is bring back samples and perform complicated in situ experiments, but with the rate that robotics and AI are developing, we should increasingly be able to do those things with unmanned missions, which are much cheaper and safer.
It can also be an extremely effective way to drive focus on issues that affect humanity as a whole, such as climate change.
Burning vast amounts of fuel for no reason is not a good way of stopping climate change.
People say that about military spending all the time.
Sure, but does the space program butcher people by the millions?
If the best reason you can come up with for doing something is that it will have some positive unintended side effects, then it’s probably not a great idea. Like, you could just do those side effects directly.
That's not really how research works. You can't say "just aim for those unanticipated benefits right out of the gate" because the very nature of those benefits is unanticipated.
Manned spaceflight mostly exists for PR purposes and is nowhere near worth the expense or risk.
If we can't leave the planet, we're vulnerable to all sorts of humanity-ending catastrophes.
Burning vast amounts of fuel for no reason is not a good way of stopping climate change.
We've both pointed out good reasons for the space program to exist, and the carbon footprint of space travel is small compared to about a thousand other things.
I can't pay no doctor bill. (but Whitey's on the moon)
soviets brought rocks back first via robotic probeEDIT: hold on, having trouble confirming this
That was the plan, but unfortunately their probe crashed on the moon at the same time Neil and friends were doing their moon walk. The name of the mission was Luna 15.
A few months later though they sent the first remote-controlled rover in history to the moon and got their samples. The basic design of the rover is still being used in Mars, for example.
sorry I think I was wrong on the other comment, Lunnik 16 was in 1970
The Saturn V program did bring some benefits. Better global communications, a bunch of tech advances, some actually really useful science etc.
But unlike the Soviet program which aimed to build human presence and capabilities in space (hence the space station focus) the US program had one focus; beat the Soviets and maintain US ability to stop the Soviets.
You see the various scientists in the US program complain again and again that this particular approach is a tech dead end used simply because it is faster.
The Soviets were a little guilty of this as well, but they'd put up long term tech before it was tested instead, hence Soyuz 1.
