With the Voice to Parliament Referendum date announced to be October 14 2023, this thread will run in the lead up to the date for general discussions/queries regarding the Voice to Parliament.

The Proposed Constitutional Amendment

Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples

129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice

In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice; the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples; the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.

Past Discussions

Here are some previous posts in this community regarding the referendum:

Common Misinformation

  • "The Uluru Statement from the Heart is 26 Pages not 1" - not true

Government Information

Amendments to this post

If you would like to see some other articles or posts linked here please let me know and I'll try to add it as soon as possible.

  1. Added the proposed constitutional amendment (31/08/2023)
  2. Added Common Misinformation section (01/07/2023)

Discussion / Rules

Please follow the rules in the sidebar and for aussie.zone in general. Anything deemed to be misinformation or with malicious intent will be removed at moderators' discretion. This is a safe space to discuss your opinion on the voice or ask general questions.

Please continue posting news articles as separate posts but consider adding a link to this post to encourage discussion.

  • Outsider9042@aussie.zone
    ·
    1 year ago

    15 years of consultation with aboriginal commmunities across all of Australia.

    Developed, vetted and approved by practicing constitutional lawyers.

    Good enough for me.

    • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
      ·
      1 year ago

      I find it so frustrating when I hear NO campaigners say a constitutive is not required. Politicians should just do their job and it’s easy to consult ATSI people, no voice required.

      They literally did that. Consulted ATSI people, as part of a plan to change things, with all major parties on board. They are showing how much they don’t listen by saying that they don’t need the voice to listen? Aaaghhh.

      • Emu_Warrior@aussie.zone
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        No voters are low-key racists, I 100% believe this- they hide behind some weak arguments to pretend they're progressive, but deep down they are just bigoted at heart. at worst this Yes vote does nothing, at best it changes for the people the well-being and future of indigenous australians. This whole throwing water on the fire instead of using a fire truck is just obfuscation, and they'd also find a reason to vote No for the fire truck as well.

        • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
          ·
          1 year ago

          There are valid reasons to vote no. However most no voters seem to jump on all the excuses to try and justify their stance. Even when two reasons are contradictory.

          Then complain that the YES side call them racist. I do think they don't consider themselves racist. They think their opinions are just 'common sense' rather than discrimination. Or that the injustices are too long ago, ignoring current injustice.

          The way I see it is we have 3 options. The voice. No change Another unnamed option.

          They are against the voice. They recognize, for the most part, that there is injustice, but have no alternative path. To me, that's intellectual dishonesty. If you recognize there is a problem, you either propose a solution or go with the proposed current actions to help, or accept status quo. A nonvite is a vote for status quo, but with added divisiveness sue to attempts made to actually have change, that are now rejected.

          • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            You can be pro-Voice and anti referendum. The issue is that the proposed amendment is offensively ineffectual.

            Claiming that the progressive NO has no path forward is intellectually dishonest. Just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

              • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                I've explained extensively why the referendum rubbish elsewhere in the thread. I can't enlighten you if you refuse to pull your head out of where the sun doesn't shine.

                • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, you've given your spurious reasons for a no. Still no proposed solution instead.

                  Maybe if you spent less time insulting people and more time being constructive, you'd see better than the proverbial head up an ass.

                  • Whirlybird@aussie.zone
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    The Yes vote isn’t a solution either though, it’s virtue signalling. The only thing that would be constitutionally protected is a vague “seat at the table” that is 100% at the discretion of the current party in power. It’s basically a token gesture that can be used to then stop making any actual progress. The voice position literally holds no power whatsoever.

                    • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
                      ·
                      1 year ago

                      Yes, it’s not meant to hold power. That’s why it’s called the voice. It’s the ability to speak and be heard. It’s not just a token gesture though. It adds pressure on any government who does not listen as to why they did not. It’s the same as the press. They hold power by holding government to account.

                      • Whirlybird@aussie.zone
                        ·
                        1 year ago

                        That’s a token gesture in every way.

                        “We’ll let you speak, like we always do, but we won’t guarantee we’ll listen or do what you say”.

                  • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    The solution is simple. Do what the Uluru statement says. Make a voice for Indigenous Peoples that is enshrined in the constitution.

                    Don't settle for a cardboard cut out version of the voice. Be angry that the racists running your country would try to lie to you to pretend that this will fix things. Be mad that they would waste so much money and time and effort to do a performative gesture. Tell them you are angry.

                    Do you expect Oil companies and Coal miners to stop pollution on their own? Why would you expect the colonial government operating on stolen land to actually force themselves to have accountability to the very people who they are stealing from? Voting Yes for the current amendment is just encouraging the poor behaviour. Its enabling the quiet racists and helping them hide.

                    Our government needs to be bullied and harassed until they have no choice to do what is right. They will not do it voluntarily. If they pass this referendum they will act like their last place participation ribbon in the anti-racism olympics is a world record setting gold medal and they will never strive anything better.

                    • hitmyspot@aussie.zone
                      ·
                      1 year ago

                      The voice enshrined in the constitution is the plan. The state,ent does not discuss its make up, nor the election process, nor the fine details. The constitution shouldn’t either. It may need fine tuning to be effective, not be rorted by bad actors, and to be representative. If all that is in the constitution, it’s harder to change later. For an example, look at what the constitution says about how we elect senators, who would have more power. Very little. It’s left to the states to legislate.

                      A no vote to reject what you call a performative gesture is more damaging than a performative gesture. I don’t think it’s just a performative gesture, to be clear, but it’s a poor argument.

                      I don’t expect any corporation or person to do the right thing unless it’s in their interest. I expect the voice to be a check on the powers in government, rather than a power themselves. Just like the oil and gas and mining industry has paid lobbyists that are very effective, the voice can do the same, but for the people. The press has no powers in the constitution, but Murdoch, for instance, has had huge power just be nature of his abi,it’s to spread information with his slant on it. The voice will have power, but it won’t have power to control our government.

                      Change comes slowly and then in a sprint. Stopping that progress doesn’t advance anyone’s rights and is a misguided understanding of how governance works. Your ideal is not necessarily everyone’s ideal. Even this limited change for the better is at risk of failure. A more extreme version would be even more so. Your resistance to good enough, instead of ideal is just as bad as the racists in outcome, even if your intentions are good.

                      • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
                        ·
                        1 year ago

                        I disagree with your opinions they are vibes based and not based on historical evidence. Expecting members of the government to work against their own self interests is silly.

        • TheHolm@aussie.zone
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yes voters are one who want to enshrine racism in constitution. Any mention of race is racism, but majority is so brainwashed to fail to understand it.

    • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
      ·
      1 year ago

      This is my take.

      I really don't know anything about the, nor the issues faced by indigenous Australians, nor the best way to address them. This just isn't relevant to my day to day.

      That said, if I made a list of people who's opinions I respect and polled them I'm sure it would be overwhelmingly "yes".