Hard to purge the progressives when they’re increasingly the base of your party. Chuck and Pelosi still need to raise money, and The Squad still racks it in. Sanders remains beloved nationally, efforts at tarnishing his image largely failing. People aren’t going to look well on a bunch of Dem Losers screaming “You made me lose!” at a bunch of Dem winners (the DSA is stronger today than it was this time in 2018). Claire McCaskill is not winning hearts and minds. And BLM is not going away.
And the DSA isn't going to get anywhere by trying to work within the Democratic party.
If you go through history of the Democrats you can see this. Go back to Howard Dean, Jesse Jackson or even McGovern (the one left based candidate who won and they sabotaged).
That party isn't going to turn left. I know many of you don't want to believe it, which is why you'll be here in 4 years still trying to convince us it's possible when they nominate Mitt Romney to run against Dan Crenshaw in 2024.
A bunch of no-names getting dunked on through Twitter aren’t going to be the driving force behind Democratic policy into 2022.
Did you look at exit polls? That's what I'm referring to, not Twitter.
Exit polls revealed that the GOP picked up many working class voters and lower income housing votes than they did in 2016. They are slowly picking up the working class with their culture war BS.
On the other hand, the Dems raked in the college educated, middle class voters, which is what kind of party they are becoming. You see this with smug liberals are and how they condescendingly talk down to everyone. THAT is what the Democratic party has become. They spent this entire election cycle wanting to court suburban white people and calling Biden the "middle class president".
That party is not going to move left. They absolutely will make the move to push the progressives out.
This issue is though, the way our government is set up is to work exclusively in a two-party mode. If your goal is to win elections, it will not happen as a third party (though there are other reasons to be in an election other than winning i.e. the PSL's strategy). Every DSA member in congress other than maybe AOC (and even her I'm not sure about) will absolutely lose if they ran as a third party. Just waaaay too many Americans just vote for whoever has an R or D next to their name.
True, its damn near impossible to win if you don't wear the correct colors.
But will it matter if the party leadership squashes any attempt by DSA backed candidates to act in a progressive/lefty fashion?
AOC has to tread a fine line because of the conservative leadership of the Democrat party. Same goes for any other lefty that manages to pull off an upset and sneak into their seats. The paradox of "winning" only to find a huge weight either trying to drag them to the political right or just have enough force to keep them from moving anything to the left.
Honestly, the dems would Corbyn her (make her have no committee spots) if she wasn't popular. I think she is pretty standard social democrat, but that is too much for dems.
And the DSA isn’t going to get anywhere by trying to work within the Democratic party.
Holding office grants power. Winning Dem primaries improves the odds of winning general elections. The DSA doesn't need to massage Chuck Schumer's balls to get what they want. They just need to stick (D)s next to their names on ballots and make polite noises about Israel from time to time.
That party isn’t going to turn left
The issue isn't about the party but the people. And there is definitely a leftward turn happening among millennials and zoomers. At some point, these people need political representation. And that means organizing within a party. If leftists want to try and hijack the Republican Party instead (a la Aria DiMezzo) more power to you. But third party bids don't work outside of the municipal level, and leftists need an electoral presence to survive in a democratic state.
The real problem with leftists organizing inside the Democratic Party is the stench. You don't want to be associated with Jared Polis, Amy Klobacher, John Delaney, and Hillary Clinton. I can't blame you for that. But that's the nature of mass movements. At some point, you're going to have to rub shoulders with people you don't like.
Exit polls revealed that the GOP picked up many working class voters and lower income housing votes than they did in 2016. They are slowly picking up the working class with their culture war BS.
They picked up a bunch of people because Donny Pumps sent people $1200 checks with his name on it. Protestant Evangelism isn't what's driving the political discourse in 2020. It's material condition.
And while Trump may have picked up a bunch of no-college whites and Hispanics in Florida and Texas, he's lost much of his appeal throughout the Midwest while costing his party the perennial right-libertarian stronghold of Arizona. The culture war is a losing issue for Republicans. They're going to have to pivot and strain the definition of whiteness one more time while leaning on an American Exceptionalist image that's worn thin.
This sudden manic surge of voter participation is still just papering over contradictions that can't be sustained.
Holding office grants power. Winning Dem primaries improves the odds of winning general elections. The DSA doesn’t need to massage Chuck Schumer’s balls to get what they want. They just need to stick (D)s next to their names on ballots and make polite noises about Israel from time to time.
Does DSA hold any office power?
The issue isn’t about the party but the people. And there is definitely a leftward turn happening among millennials and zoomers. At some point, these people need political representation. And that means organizing within a party.
Did you read what I posted? I'm not convinced you did, so let me repeat myself one last time -
The GOP picked up mostly non-educated (politically correct term for 'poor' and 'uneducated') and lower income households. In other words, they are winning the working class.
They got their most POC support since the 1950s. Trump's support with black voters doubled and he also raked in Latino voters. To hear leftists on here say it, they think it's all cause of Florida and anti-communism, but he did incredibly well with Latinos in Texas too and across the country.
What does this mean? For one, it means that identity politics is bullshit and people are resonating more with their class level than any of the ID-POL junk that liberals obsess with.
Progressives have been trying to organize within the Democratic party for fucking decades. McGovern actually won his nomination only to get completely screwed and that was over 50 years ago! Like I told you, look at Howard Dean and Jesse Jackson. This shit ain't new. That party is never going to move left. It's a graveyard of social movements.
They picked up a bunch of people because Donny Pumps sent people $1200 checks with his name on it. Protestant Evangelism isn’t what’s driving the political discourse in 2020. It’s material condition.
You just revealed where you sit in terms of class, if you really think it's over those checks. Most people like me needed that stimulus, it helped. I could use another one right now.
The GOP is winning the culture war talks by constantly pointing out how out of touch with reality the Dem leadership is and how they don't give a fuck about working class people. It's not a coincidence that it worked well enough for the Republicans to pick up a lot of minority voters.
And while Trump may have picked up a bunch of no-college whites and Hispanics in Florida and Texas, he’s lost much of his appeal throughout the Midwest while costing his party the perennial right-libertarian stronghold of Arizona. The culture war is a losing issue for Republicans. They’re going to have to pivot and strain the definition of whiteness one more time while leaning on an American Exceptionalist image that’s worn thin.
Florida and Texas are literally red states LOL I don't know what the fuck you're talking about here. A Democrat hasn't won Texas since the 1960s. We hear this stupid shit every 4 years about "blue Texas" and it's just not a reality. Florida has been controlled by Republicans for a while too. Even when Obama turned them blue, they still had Republican governors. It's the state of Rick Scott, Marco Rubio and Ron DeSantis.
Did you pay attention to ANYTHING going on this year in the midwest? The Midwest is not this blue utopia that liberals claim it is. There wasn't a single Republican sitting on the city council in Minneapolis when the riots broke out. We are told over and over how the midwest is supposedly this liberal utopia where they have blue strongholds over all those big cities. Well guess what? Liberals control major cities that just so happen to have out of control, insanely corrupt police departments that murder people. America is racist all together. It's not contained between color coded maps like liberals think.
The answer to all of this from the Democratic party is that they need to move further right. That's what they did by nominating Biden in the first place. The DSA is not going to change that party, don't care how bad you argue it. You're living in fantasy land if you think the party that just ran Joe fucking Biden for president, is going to magically move left in the next 4-8 years. Meanwhile, the GOP is sweeping up working class voters and proving how useless ID-POL is. Dems will be shitting themselves when the Republicans prop up a competent fascist in the next election cycle.
Mostly city councils (and almost exclusively in blue states) and a few house representatives.
You just proved my point that the progressives couldn't radically take over the Democratic party in the same way that the Tea Party did the GOP in the same amount of time. Look at that list and it's no real power to change the Democratic party.
The key difference is; like I explained before; the Democrats have to be dragged, kicking and screaming the entire time to move left. They aren't as smart as the GOP who embraced the Tea Party and later Trump when they realized it was their best shot at getting back into power. The Dems don't think like that cause they have to keep their donors happy. They will tell the millennials and zoomers to fuck off and just get behind their moderate centrist candidates cause the Republicans are bad.
The only thing the Dems have to offer anymore is empty platitudes and identity politics, and that's what they're still going to sell people on. They aren't going to embrace the left.
Mostly city councils (and almost exclusively in blue states) and a few house representatives.
Yes. All of these positions carry power. Particularly in big urban areas, where a single City Council seat can represent hundreds of thousands of people.
And the DSA isn't going to get anywhere by trying to work within the Democratic party.
If you go through history of the Democrats you can see this. Go back to Howard Dean, Jesse Jackson or even McGovern (the one left based candidate who won and they sabotaged).
That party isn't going to turn left. I know many of you don't want to believe it, which is why you'll be here in 4 years still trying to convince us it's possible when they nominate Mitt Romney to run against Dan Crenshaw in 2024.
Did you look at exit polls? That's what I'm referring to, not Twitter.
Exit polls revealed that the GOP picked up many working class voters and lower income housing votes than they did in 2016. They are slowly picking up the working class with their culture war BS.
On the other hand, the Dems raked in the college educated, middle class voters, which is what kind of party they are becoming. You see this with smug liberals are and how they condescendingly talk down to everyone. THAT is what the Democratic party has become. They spent this entire election cycle wanting to court suburban white people and calling Biden the "middle class president".
That party is not going to move left. They absolutely will make the move to push the progressives out.
This issue is though, the way our government is set up is to work exclusively in a two-party mode. If your goal is to win elections, it will not happen as a third party (though there are other reasons to be in an election other than winning i.e. the PSL's strategy). Every DSA member in congress other than maybe AOC (and even her I'm not sure about) will absolutely lose if they ran as a third party. Just waaaay too many Americans just vote for whoever has an R or D next to their name.
True, its damn near impossible to win if you don't wear the correct colors.
But will it matter if the party leadership squashes any attempt by DSA backed candidates to act in a progressive/lefty fashion?
AOC has to tread a fine line because of the conservative leadership of the Democrat party. Same goes for any other lefty that manages to pull off an upset and sneak into their seats. The paradox of "winning" only to find a huge weight either trying to drag them to the political right or just have enough force to keep them from moving anything to the left.
Honestly, the dems would Corbyn her (make her have no committee spots) if she wasn't popular. I think she is pretty standard social democrat, but that is too much for dems.
Holding office grants power. Winning Dem primaries improves the odds of winning general elections. The DSA doesn't need to massage Chuck Schumer's balls to get what they want. They just need to stick (D)s next to their names on ballots and make polite noises about Israel from time to time.
The issue isn't about the party but the people. And there is definitely a leftward turn happening among millennials and zoomers. At some point, these people need political representation. And that means organizing within a party. If leftists want to try and hijack the Republican Party instead (a la Aria DiMezzo) more power to you. But third party bids don't work outside of the municipal level, and leftists need an electoral presence to survive in a democratic state.
The real problem with leftists organizing inside the Democratic Party is the stench. You don't want to be associated with Jared Polis, Amy Klobacher, John Delaney, and Hillary Clinton. I can't blame you for that. But that's the nature of mass movements. At some point, you're going to have to rub shoulders with people you don't like.
They picked up a bunch of people because Donny Pumps sent people $1200 checks with his name on it. Protestant Evangelism isn't what's driving the political discourse in 2020. It's material condition.
And while Trump may have picked up a bunch of no-college whites and Hispanics in Florida and Texas, he's lost much of his appeal throughout the Midwest while costing his party the perennial right-libertarian stronghold of Arizona. The culture war is a losing issue for Republicans. They're going to have to pivot and strain the definition of whiteness one more time while leaning on an American Exceptionalist image that's worn thin.
This sudden manic surge of voter participation is still just papering over contradictions that can't be sustained.
Does DSA hold any office power?
Did you read what I posted? I'm not convinced you did, so let me repeat myself one last time -
The GOP picked up mostly non-educated (politically correct term for 'poor' and 'uneducated') and lower income households. In other words, they are winning the working class.
They got their most POC support since the 1950s. Trump's support with black voters doubled and he also raked in Latino voters. To hear leftists on here say it, they think it's all cause of Florida and anti-communism, but he did incredibly well with Latinos in Texas too and across the country.
What does this mean? For one, it means that identity politics is bullshit and people are resonating more with their class level than any of the ID-POL junk that liberals obsess with.
Progressives have been trying to organize within the Democratic party for fucking decades. McGovern actually won his nomination only to get completely screwed and that was over 50 years ago! Like I told you, look at Howard Dean and Jesse Jackson. This shit ain't new. That party is never going to move left. It's a graveyard of social movements.
You just revealed where you sit in terms of class, if you really think it's over those checks. Most people like me needed that stimulus, it helped. I could use another one right now.
The GOP is winning the culture war talks by constantly pointing out how out of touch with reality the Dem leadership is and how they don't give a fuck about working class people. It's not a coincidence that it worked well enough for the Republicans to pick up a lot of minority voters.
Florida and Texas are literally red states LOL I don't know what the fuck you're talking about here. A Democrat hasn't won Texas since the 1960s. We hear this stupid shit every 4 years about "blue Texas" and it's just not a reality. Florida has been controlled by Republicans for a while too. Even when Obama turned them blue, they still had Republican governors. It's the state of Rick Scott, Marco Rubio and Ron DeSantis.
Did you pay attention to ANYTHING going on this year in the midwest? The Midwest is not this blue utopia that liberals claim it is. There wasn't a single Republican sitting on the city council in Minneapolis when the riots broke out. We are told over and over how the midwest is supposedly this liberal utopia where they have blue strongholds over all those big cities. Well guess what? Liberals control major cities that just so happen to have out of control, insanely corrupt police departments that murder people. America is racist all together. It's not contained between color coded maps like liberals think.
The answer to all of this from the Democratic party is that they need to move further right. That's what they did by nominating Biden in the first place. The DSA is not going to change that party, don't care how bad you argue it. You're living in fantasy land if you think the party that just ran Joe fucking Biden for president, is going to magically move left in the next 4-8 years. Meanwhile, the GOP is sweeping up working class voters and proving how useless ID-POL is. Dems will be shitting themselves when the Republicans prop up a competent fascist in the next election cycle.
Yes
Mostly city councils (and almost exclusively in blue states) and a few house representatives.
You just proved my point that the progressives couldn't radically take over the Democratic party in the same way that the Tea Party did the GOP in the same amount of time. Look at that list and it's no real power to change the Democratic party.
The key difference is; like I explained before; the Democrats have to be dragged, kicking and screaming the entire time to move left. They aren't as smart as the GOP who embraced the Tea Party and later Trump when they realized it was their best shot at getting back into power. The Dems don't think like that cause they have to keep their donors happy. They will tell the millennials and zoomers to fuck off and just get behind their moderate centrist candidates cause the Republicans are bad.
The only thing the Dems have to offer anymore is empty platitudes and identity politics, and that's what they're still going to sell people on. They aren't going to embrace the left.
Yes. All of these positions carry power. Particularly in big urban areas, where a single City Council seat can represent hundreds of thousands of people.
"DSA can't win in the party!"
"Here, these are instances where they won."
"THOSE INSTANCES DON'T COUNT! I WIN!"
Thanks Ben Shapiro. This has been a lot of fun.