They're gonna get their wealth extracted from someone and so am I, the wealth that's extracted is just gonna go straight up to the actual bourgeoisie anyway. It's just going into and out of my hands instead of into and out of somebody else's hands. And the other person is no worse off than they would be anywhere else. It's not a problem that can be solved through individual action. If you wanna offer a better deal than market rate, then good on you, but it's only going to benefit the first lucky applicant and I don't see how it's any different than just walking up to a stranger and handing them a $100 bill. Like, cool, but what exactly do you think you're accomplishing, other than feeling good about yourself?
As I said elsewhere, one reason for my perspective was that I had considered moving with my roommates and working out a deal where one of us buys a place and the rest rent. We wouldn't really want to share equity because we're probably not going to stay together forever. I don't see what's stopping us from working out a deal that everyone would be happy with where we trade away equity for a lower monthly payment. I don't see what force makes that so fundamentally impossible, in your eyes. I'd honestly prefer to be a renter in that case so that I wouldn't have to deal with all the shit.
Or another possibility I considered was an offer to live with some other friends and doing labor in lieu of rent. Idk if paying in labor is different than paying in cash to you or not, but in any case, if your reaction to that offer is to roll out a guillotine then you might have developed an ideology exclusively through memes.
It's just dumb, we're all roughly the same level of poor, none of us are suddenly going to stop being poor just because we take out a loan, we couldn't suddenly transform into bourgeoisie exploiters if we tried, it just feels like nobody's actually thinking about the issue from a grounded and realistic perspective and it's all just haha Mao, which is cool and good unless you're trying to analyze things seriously and make a serious decision.
You talking about people getting pissed because of "gaining revenue from mere ownership," didn't Marx literally play the stocks, ffs? This shit is all just ideology and idealism and moral purity. Anyway I feel like I've said my piece and you're not changing my mind because I have practical, real life scenarios I'm looking at, and I don't think I'm changing people's minds because, idk, reasons. We're in agreement on like 99% of the issue anyway. OP is still a coward for making this post and still refusing to engage with me. Good luck dealing with housing in an ethical way, since you seem to think that's possible. I'm taking a break.
Literally the post that started this was a corner case and obviously I'm only defending corner cases and not the system on the whole which I clearly and vehemently oppose.
Ime I run into more people who see corner cases like that on their own and wonder why the left hates landlords and renting so much and why they don't just buy instead, which is why I think it's more important to have the conversation focused on the main structural issues which are more important anyway, and easier to explain. Like if what you're saying is that there are corner cases where it's basically fine but we should just sweep them under the rug so that nobody gets any ideas and just hope nobody notices, that ain't gonna work.
A lot of people wish they could! Many young people have very poor prospects for being able to own a home.
I'm aware. Not everyone is as sympathetic tho, and plus there are cases where people have the option and choose to rent, which makes the argument less compelling.
Now you see, Mr. Stalin, this Kulak really doesn’t have that much grain to hoard, we can’t attribute any famine deaths directly to them. Sure, it might be more functional to just collectivize the land rather than allow a patchwork of “acceptable cases” through, but have you considered that they work really hard on their farm?
Yeah no I have been abundantly clear the whole time that housing is a human right and I've also clearly stated that I oppose the existence of landlords and am only discussing the actions of individuals in a fundamentally broken system, not any kind of ideal. There is no comparison.
Ok, ok, I get you. I said I'd take a break but I continued because things mellowed out some, don't wanna start shit up. I'd be interested to see stats on that (if for nothing else but to add a talking point to my repertoire), but I will say that part of why my roommate and I were talking about buying a place is that it's probably a better deal, admittedly. But then that's where it could be an edge case where one of us could buy and we could work out a deal, and if that's what made sense for us materially I wouldn't want to say no just because of ideology. That's where I'm coming from.
They're gonna get their wealth extracted from someone and so am I, the wealth that's extracted is just gonna go straight up to the actual bourgeoisie anyway. It's just going into and out of my hands instead of into and out of somebody else's hands. And the other person is no worse off than they would be anywhere else. It's not a problem that can be solved through individual action. If you wanna offer a better deal than market rate, then good on you, but it's only going to benefit the first lucky applicant and I don't see how it's any different than just walking up to a stranger and handing them a $100 bill. Like, cool, but what exactly do you think you're accomplishing, other than feeling good about yourself?
As I said elsewhere, one reason for my perspective was that I had considered moving with my roommates and working out a deal where one of us buys a place and the rest rent. We wouldn't really want to share equity because we're probably not going to stay together forever. I don't see what's stopping us from working out a deal that everyone would be happy with where we trade away equity for a lower monthly payment. I don't see what force makes that so fundamentally impossible, in your eyes. I'd honestly prefer to be a renter in that case so that I wouldn't have to deal with all the shit.
Or another possibility I considered was an offer to live with some other friends and doing labor in lieu of rent. Idk if paying in labor is different than paying in cash to you or not, but in any case, if your reaction to that offer is to roll out a guillotine then you might have developed an ideology exclusively through memes.
It's just dumb, we're all roughly the same level of poor, none of us are suddenly going to stop being poor just because we take out a loan, we couldn't suddenly transform into bourgeoisie exploiters if we tried, it just feels like nobody's actually thinking about the issue from a grounded and realistic perspective and it's all just haha Mao, which is cool and good unless you're trying to analyze things seriously and make a serious decision.
You talking about people getting pissed because of "gaining revenue from mere ownership," didn't Marx literally play the stocks, ffs? This shit is all just ideology and idealism and moral purity. Anyway I feel like I've said my piece and you're not changing my mind because I have practical, real life scenarios I'm looking at, and I don't think I'm changing people's minds because, idk, reasons. We're in agreement on like 99% of the issue anyway. OP is still a coward for making this post and still refusing to engage with me. Good luck dealing with housing in an ethical way, since you seem to think that's possible. I'm taking a break.
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Literally the post that started this was a corner case and obviously I'm only defending corner cases and not the system on the whole which I clearly and vehemently oppose.
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Ime I run into more people who see corner cases like that on their own and wonder why the left hates landlords and renting so much and why they don't just buy instead, which is why I think it's more important to have the conversation focused on the main structural issues which are more important anyway, and easier to explain. Like if what you're saying is that there are corner cases where it's basically fine but we should just sweep them under the rug so that nobody gets any ideas and just hope nobody notices, that ain't gonna work.
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I'm aware. Not everyone is as sympathetic tho, and plus there are cases where people have the option and choose to rent, which makes the argument less compelling.
Yeah no I have been abundantly clear the whole time that housing is a human right and I've also clearly stated that I oppose the existence of landlords and am only discussing the actions of individuals in a fundamentally broken system, not any kind of ideal. There is no comparison.
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Ok, ok, I get you. I said I'd take a break but I continued because things mellowed out some, don't wanna start shit up. I'd be interested to see stats on that (if for nothing else but to add a talking point to my repertoire), but I will say that part of why my roommate and I were talking about buying a place is that it's probably a better deal, admittedly. But then that's where it could be an edge case where one of us could buy and we could work out a deal, and if that's what made sense for us materially I wouldn't want to say no just because of ideology. That's where I'm coming from.