The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
    ·
    1 year ago

    Just another piece of evidence that the west never actually cared about Ukraine or people living there. Ukrainians are just a pawn the west is using to try and weaken Russia with zero consideration for the lives of the people living there.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      ·
      1 year ago

      Well, the alternatives are heavy metal, which also aren't the greatest to breathe in. It's almost like war is aweful and this one shouldn't have been started in the first place, but here we are...

        • photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          ·
          1 year ago

          And what, let the Russians steamroll Ukraine and take everything? Let them destroy a fledgling democracy? Right on the EU's and NATO's doorstep? Come on.

          • Kuori [she/her]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            fledgling democracy

            lmao are you fucking kidding

            and shit while we're at it, what the fuck do you think NATO has been doing its entire existence? it's been destroying -actual- fledgling democracies, you monstrously hypocritical ass

          • fuckiforgotmypasswor [comrade/them,any]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            let the Russians steamroll Ukraine and take everything?

            I've noticed that every pro-NATO voice screaming "war good" has to pretend like the binary outcome of this war is a) Ukraine becomes Russia and every living inhabitant is genocided (see above comment from bibibi for case in point), or b) Ukraine heroically drives back Russia with magic in a completely asymmetrical and unwinnable war

            Come on.

            And then finishes their comment with something like this

            There's no material analysis to support any of this

            The only way to get to that viewpoint is to believe Putin is an irrational, genocidal maniac hellbent on killing checks notes neighbors who are ethnically russian, who also desperately wants to push even more of Russia's border right up against a hostile NATO. It's no surprise that the people saying this shit are pro NATO and don't understand the material reality underlying geopolitical conflicts like this one

            Not gonna touch the "fledgeling democracy" thing, other comrades can dunk on that chefs-kiss

            • CombatLiberalism [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              This entire thread is proof that the liberal understanding of geopolitics and foreign policy is entirely vibes based

            • bibibi@lemmy.ml
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago
              1. "ethnical russian" - what is that?

              2. russian imperialism is a thing. People there are brainwashed with russia's greatness ideas and expansion. putin's actions just represent the will of russians.

              3. The fact we were attacked and lost that many people is already a defeat. We lost this war when gave up nukes under the push of the west and russia. this together with naivness of our post-soviet people defined the path of our degradation. But it neither a win for russia, and won't be. Russia was always corrupted just like Ukraine, it just got more resources and nukes, but that's it. without the above fact and support of the west, maybe we would not be able to suppress them

              • fuckmyphonefuckingsu [comrade/them]
                ·
                1 year ago

                putin's actions just represent the will of russians.

                this is your brain on liberalism

                but thank you for at least conceding america deserved 9/11

              • fuckiforgotmypasswor [comrade/them,any]
                ·
                1 year ago

                russian imperialism is a thing

                i just can't anymore, the cognitive dissonance is fucking astounding, yall can deal with the libs in this thread

                im just gonna let people like this LIB continue to suck off the western imperialists sending radiated shells to his neighborhood, slava ukrani buddy

              • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
                ·
                1 year ago

                Oh man I still remember the post that was leaked from russian government webpage on the 25th, a day after russian invaded. It was an absolute hard on about russian imperialism and how they will restore the good old russian empire or something, which included most slavic countries btw. It was taken down in hours but I checked that the addess was correct and legit. No proof of it since it's been a year already and I saved nothing, so if you don't believe it ignore me and please don't spread this since I have no source anymore, but damn if it doesn't paint a clear picture of russia's intent on all of this since way before.

                • Zrc
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  4 months ago

                  deleted by creator

                • smiley
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  deleted by creator

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
          ·
          1 year ago

          The real alternative is for Russians to go home. Who the fuck cares who's using them? They're being invaded. Russia didn't need to invade them, but they thought they could get away with it (again). This isnt the first invasion of a sovereign country Russia has done. It isn't even the first invasion of Ukraine. The US didn't get involved in the others. Are we just going to excuse those?

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don't know why people keep repeating this. Do you honestly think this is a coherent point? Russia is obviously not going to go home no matter how many times you're going to repeat it. It's a meaningless and useless statement that literally solves nothing. Either NATO can defeat Russia or not, so far it looks like NATO is not able to do so. What NATO is accomplishing is prolonging the conflict without changing the outcome. That means more people dying and having their lives ruined so that US military industry can make a profit and so that US can try and weaken Russia geopolitically. Anybody who thinks the west is in this conflict to help Ukraine is an utter imbecile.

            • Cethin@lemmy.zip
              ·
              1 year ago

              Should the US have sent supplies to the allies in WWI and WWII before joining? It was just prolonging the war and causing people to die, right?

              The reason the US is doing it is not morality. Everyone knows that. International politics is never about morality, it's about power. However, that doesn't mean it isn't also the moral option.

              Also, NATO and the US are not in the war. We're sending supplies. The US isn't even sending the good stuff. We're sending parts of our stockpile that's old and has just been sitting around waiting for a use. They haven't sent the newer technology so it it isn't studied in case a real enemy requires them to be used.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                ·
                1 year ago

                It takes an incredible amount of historical illiteracy to try and draw parallels between WW2 and the proxy war US is waging against Russia in Ukraine. However, if you weren't historically illiterate, then you'd also know that US companies continued working with the nazis well into the war, and IBM is famously responsible for facilitating the holocaust.

                Also, NATO and the US are very obviously in this war, and one has to be utterly intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.

                • Cethin@lemmy.zip
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  When the US government was providing resources to the allies, was it good or bad? I'm not talking companies or anything else. You're dodging the question. There are enough parallels to draw a comparison. You just know what the answer would be and it conflicts with your beliefs, so you can't admit it, to yourself or others.

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    When US government provides resources to these people, is it good or bad?

                    • https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
                    • https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
                    • https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
                    • https://www.internationalmagz.com/articles/conversation-with-dmitri-kovalevich
                    • https://www.mintpressnews.com/volodymyr-zelensky-secret-police-hunted-down-opposition-anatoly-shariy/280200/

                    And this is why your comparison is historically illiterate. The actual comparison would be US funding the nazis in WW2. You're either ignorant of whom US is propping up in Ukraine or you're just dishonest. Either way not a good look.

                • Cethin@lemmy.zip
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  More What-aboutism to dodge answering the question. That's expected, and it's about as good as an answer to me and anyone paying attention.

                  • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    You brought up the example of the US in relation to WWII. If you make a comparison, you can't get stroppy when people point out that it contradicts your main argument and in fact supports the argument that you're trying to challenge.

                    However, for as long as you think the US is the Good GuyTM, you're going to struggle to find examples that support your viewpoint, so you may want to be careful with any comparison. Otherwise, you'll start to notice a pattern of them pointing out that the US was as monstrous as always in the cited example and then you'll say they're doing whataboutism ad infinitum.

          • Aryuproudomenowdaddy [comrade/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Have you ever played 4x games? Do you know what encirclement is? When an opponent is ringing your territory with bases while they keep telling you it's totally cool bro, they're just working on their defenses while making alliances with players adjacent to you, what do you consider is their end game?

            • Cethin@lemmy.zip
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Yeah, everyone Russia has invaded has been for defence. Sure buddy. The real world is more complex than a 4X game, but even then you can use that to understand why someone would invade another country. They wanted to steal the resources and population. You may use your statement as a justification, but it is never the actual reason. The excuse of it being defensive is rediculous. Yeah, invading a sovereign country (multiple times) is sure to make the alliance "encircling" you stop. Seriously? Do you believe that rhetoric or are you just saying it because you're supposed to?

        • bibibi@lemmy.ml
          ·
          1 year ago
          1. if Ukraine lose completely most of ukrainans living in Ukraine simply get extriminated or forcely assimilated.
          2. Russia started the war when invided Ukraine in 2014. not sure where the "using" is.
            • bibibi@lemmy.ml
              ·
              1 year ago

              tell me what's right. I'm ukrainian living in Ukraine. but please, your bs about дамбілі бамбас won't work

              btw Im not happy with NATO neither with western history. I just know personally what russian imperialistic shit looks like

                  • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    their relatives were Jews killed in WW2 by the Nazis and Ukrainian collaborateurs like Bandera. That's abundantly clear from context

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
      ·
      1 year ago

      Russia does not need the west to weaken it, comrade, it is perfectly capable of doing that on its own!

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        Maybe try engaging with reality? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-11/russia-s-war-economy-is-on-course-to-recover-from-sanctions-hit

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          ·
          1 year ago

          You expect me to pay for an article from a neolib shitstain outlet?

          Have another neolib shitstain outlet, this time for free: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-economy-brain-drain-labor-shortage-workforce-exodus-capital-flight-2023-9

          The truth is that it's all quite hard to measure as Russia is lying about its economical figures (they make no sense whatsoever) and going via secondary indicators is possible, but also frought with uncertainty. But two things really stand out: a) investing in a war you're losing is GDP flushed down the drain, b) they're cut off from any advanced technology at even half-way reasonable prices, c) massive brain drain, there's also d) report of very excessive inflation when it comes to food.

          If they manage to raise GDP by exporting more oil or whatnot -- that's raising GDP. It's not actually doing the country any good. More petrorubles for the kleptocrats.


          But all that is rather besides the point. Russia, alongside with Ukraine, did a lot of stuff wrong in the 90s. Look at Estonia or e.g. Czechs (if you want to keep it among Slavs) on how to do it... nah, not right, but definitely better.

          Ukraine then managed to turn around, develop an actual civil society and clip the wings of the oligarchy, Russia didn't. That is what I mean with "perfectly capable of messing up on their own". It's also the reason for the war it's a matter of regime stability: There's plenty of family ties between Russia and Ukraine, if Russians see that Ukraine can escape the yoke of the kleptocrats then they could start to believe that they, too, can do that.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
            ·
            1 year ago

            I expect you to have minimal technical literacy to put the link URL in archive.

            The truth is that there is no actual evidence to indicate that Russian economy is struggling in any way.

            a) investing in a war you’re losing is GDP flushed down the drain

            That certainly explains why Europe is in a deep recession now and why US economy is looking shaky.

            b) they’re cut off from any advanced technology at even half-way reasonable prices

            Once you look at a map you'll realize that Russia shares a huge border with China where all the advanced technology is produced nowadays. Trade between Russia and China has shot up to over 200 billion this year.

            c) massive brain drain

            Very little evidence for that actually happening, the article you linked is written by the same people who claimed Russia was a gas station with nukes, and that Russian economy was going to collapse months after western sanctions were imposed. If you haven't figured out that you've been lied to yet, that really says a lot about you.

            d) report of very excessive inflation when it comes to food.

            Russia has very low food inflation and happens to be one of the major food producers globally. Once again, the fact that you think Russia has food inflation says volumes.

            But all that is rather besides the point. Russia, alongside with Ukraine, did a lot of stuff wrong in the 90s. Look at Estonia or e.g. Czechs (if you want to keep it among Slavs) on how to do it… nah, not right, but definitely better.

            We're now seeing Russia having made it through two years of being cut off from the western economy, and doing well for itself. Meanwhile, countries like Estonia and Czech republic aren't doing so hot. And frankly, it's completely absurd to compare a country the size of Russia to a country like Estonia.

            Ukraine then managed to turn around, develop an actual civil society and clip the wings of the oligarchy, Russia didn’t.

            That's complete and utter horseshit. Ukraine turned into the most corrupt country in Europe, and things have only kept getting worse. Ukraine started as a big industrial power after USSR collapsed, and now it's been robbed entirely of anything of value.

            There’s plenty of family ties between Russia and Ukraine, if Russians see that Ukraine can escape the yoke of the kleptocrats then they could start to believe that they, too, can do that.

            What people in Russia see is that under west's leadership Ukraine managed to become worse than Russia. All that did was convince people in Russia that the west was going to fuck them over exactly the same way they fucked Ukraine over.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Ukraine turned into the most corrupt country in Europe, and things have only kept getting worse.

              Ukraine and Russia both did. One of them is making efforts to get out of that swamp.

              I find it rather telling that of all the things you found weak retorts for, you completely left out the "More petrorubles for the kleptocrats" part, and how GDP is not a proper measure of the wealth of a people, at least in any even remotely leftist sense.

              Ask Tuvans without access to electricity, running water, heck even a fucking gas station, how wealthy they are. Yet they're not even counted as poor in the official statistics as the way poverty is counted in Russia is highly regional: If you're poor in Moscow you count, if you're infinitely worse off in the periphery you don't.

              That is why you see Russian soldiers -- primarily from the periphery as joining the army is the only way to make any money as there's no actual jobs -- looting toilets. Fucking toilets. Back in WWII it was water faucets. Nothing the fuck has changed in that regard.

              If you think that Putin is "draining the swamp" then you're no less naive than your run off the mill Trumpet.

              (Side note, speaking of WWII: Remember that Soviet flag on the Reichstag picture? That's of a Ukrainian. Taken by a Ukrainian).

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                ·
                1 year ago

                One of them is making efforts to get out of that swamp.

                You must be referring to Russia here given that this is what's happening in Ukraine right now

                • https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/
                • https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/in-ukraine-now-there-are-autocratic-tendencies-democracy-at-stake-rstd9nn3q

                I find it rather telling that of all the things you found weak retorts for, you completely left out the “More petrorubles for the kleptocrats” part, and how GDP is not a proper measure of the wealth of a people, at least in any even remotely leftist sense.

                There is zero indication to suggest that regular people in Russia are significantly effected in any way right now. Cost of food, housing, and other essentials has stayed stable.

                That is why you see Russian soldiers – primarily from the periphery as joining the army is the only way to make any money as there’s no actual jobs – looting toilets. Fucking toilets. Back in WWII it was water faucets. Nothing the fuck has changed in that regard.

                I mean if that's what you've convinced yourself of then what else is there to say to you.

                If you think that Putin is “draining the swamp” then you’re no less naive than your run off the mill Trumpet.

                No, I don't think Putin is draining any swamp, but I do think he runs a far more competent administration than western oligarchs.

                (Side note, speaking of WWII: Remember that Soviet flag on the Reichstag picture? That’s of a Ukrainian. Taken by a Ukrainian).

                And now thanks to the help from the west Ukraine is run by literal fascists. Maybe something you should reflect on.

                In any case, this conversation is clearly pointless since you evidently live in an alternate reality. I'll just let you figure things out on your own and reconcile the fantasies you've built up with the real world as it becomes increasingly more difficult to ignore going forward.

              • pelikan@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                ·
                1 year ago

                "Looting toilets" is the funniest part. Do you really believe that Ukraine is such pauper country that invading soldiers couldn't loot anything more valuable than used toilets from occupied cities? It's required to have literally zero critical thinking in order not to understand that this is propagandistic bullshit.

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  People take PCs, jewellery, and smartphones with them when fleeing. You usually leave the toilet behind.