The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.
Just another piece of evidence that the west never actually cared about Ukraine or people living there. Ukrainians are just a pawn the west is using to try and weaken Russia with zero consideration for the lives of the people living there.
Well, the alternatives are heavy metal, which also aren't the greatest to breathe in. It's almost like war is aweful and this one shouldn't have been started in the first place, but here we are...
No, the alternative is for the west to stop using Ukraine to fight a proxy war with Russia.
And what, let the Russians steamroll Ukraine and take everything? Let them destroy a fledgling democracy? Right on the EU's and NATO's doorstep? Come on.
fledgling democracy
lmao are you fucking kidding
and shit while we're at it, what the fuck do you think NATO has been doing its entire existence? it's been destroying -actual- fledgling democracies, you monstrously hypocritical ass
a fledgling democracy
Sees notably corrupt country the U.S. couped in 2014, where even the anti-corruption president has personal funds stashed in offshore bank accounts
"Is this a fledgling democracy?"let the Russians steamroll Ukraine and take everything?
I've noticed that every pro-NATO voice screaming "war good" has to pretend like the binary outcome of this war is a) Ukraine becomes Russia and every living inhabitant is genocided (see above comment from bibibi for case in point), or b) Ukraine heroically drives back Russia with magic in a completely asymmetrical and unwinnable war
Come on.
And then finishes their comment with something like this
There's no material analysis to support any of this
The only way to get to that viewpoint is to believe Putin is an irrational, genocidal maniac hellbent on killing checks notes neighbors who are ethnically russian, who also desperately wants to push even more of Russia's border right up against a hostile NATO. It's no surprise that the people saying this shit are pro NATO and don't understand the material reality underlying geopolitical conflicts like this one
Not gonna touch the "fledgeling democracy" thing, other comrades can dunk on that
This entire thread is proof that the liberal understanding of geopolitics and foreign policy is entirely vibes based
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"ethnical russian" - what is that?
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russian imperialism is a thing. People there are brainwashed with russia's greatness ideas and expansion. putin's actions just represent the will of russians.
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The fact we were attacked and lost that many people is already a defeat. We lost this war when gave up nukes under the push of the west and russia. this together with naivness of our post-soviet people defined the path of our degradation. But it neither a win for russia, and won't be. Russia was always corrupted just like Ukraine, it just got more resources and nukes, but that's it. without the above fact and support of the west, maybe we would not be able to suppress them
putin's actions just represent the will of russians.
this is your brain on liberalism
but thank you for at least conceding america deserved 9/11
russian imperialism is a thing
i just can't anymore, the cognitive dissonance is fucking astounding, yall can deal with the libs in this thread
im just gonna let people like this
continue to suck off the western imperialists sending radiated shells to his neighborhood, slava ukrani buddyOh man I still remember the post that was leaked from russian government webpage on the 25th, a day after russian invaded. It was an absolute hard on about russian imperialism and how they will restore the good old russian empire or something, which included most slavic countries btw. It was taken down in hours but I checked that the addess was correct and legit. No proof of it since it's been a year already and I saved nothing, so if you don't believe it ignore me and please don't spread this since I have no source anymore, but damn if it doesn't paint a clear picture of russia's intent on all of this since way before.
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The real alternative is for Russians to go home. Who the fuck cares who's using them? They're being invaded. Russia didn't need to invade them, but they thought they could get away with it (again). This isnt the first invasion of a sovereign country Russia has done. It isn't even the first invasion of Ukraine. The US didn't get involved in the others. Are we just going to excuse those?
I don't know why people keep repeating this. Do you honestly think this is a coherent point? Russia is obviously not going to go home no matter how many times you're going to repeat it. It's a meaningless and useless statement that literally solves nothing. Either NATO can defeat Russia or not, so far it looks like NATO is not able to do so. What NATO is accomplishing is prolonging the conflict without changing the outcome. That means more people dying and having their lives ruined so that US military industry can make a profit and so that US can try and weaken Russia geopolitically. Anybody who thinks the west is in this conflict to help Ukraine is an utter imbecile.
Should the US have sent supplies to the allies in WWI and WWII before joining? It was just prolonging the war and causing people to die, right?
The reason the US is doing it is not morality. Everyone knows that. International politics is never about morality, it's about power. However, that doesn't mean it isn't also the moral option.
Also, NATO and the US are not in the war. We're sending supplies. The US isn't even sending the good stuff. We're sending parts of our stockpile that's old and has just been sitting around waiting for a use. They haven't sent the newer technology so it it isn't studied in case a real enemy requires them to be used.
It takes an incredible amount of historical illiteracy to try and draw parallels between WW2 and the proxy war US is waging against Russia in Ukraine. However, if you weren't historically illiterate, then you'd also know that US companies continued working with the nazis well into the war, and IBM is famously responsible for facilitating the holocaust.
Also, NATO and the US are very obviously in this war, and one has to be utterly intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.
When the US government was providing resources to the allies, was it good or bad? I'm not talking companies or anything else. You're dodging the question. There are enough parallels to draw a comparison. You just know what the answer would be and it conflicts with your beliefs, so you can't admit it, to yourself or others.
When US government provides resources to these people, is it good or bad?
- https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
- https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
- https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
- https://www.internationalmagz.com/articles/conversation-with-dmitri-kovalevich
- https://www.mintpressnews.com/volodymyr-zelensky-secret-police-hunted-down-opposition-anatoly-shariy/280200/
And this is why your comparison is historically illiterate. The actual comparison would be US funding the nazis in WW2. You're either ignorant of whom US is propping up in Ukraine or you're just dishonest. Either way not a good look.
I did answer your question in detail, and it's safe to dismiss anybody who uses whataboutism as a form of argument. That's just a logical fallacy that imbeciles use to try and create a double standard.
You didn't, and I didn't use What-aboutism. I pointed out that you did. You said "what about...." What's wrong with you?
I did, and you crying about whataboutism is what I'm referring to. Anybody who calls out whataboutism as a form of argument is engaging in intellectual dishonesty. The question you set up is fundamentally wrong, and you're fishing for an answer for that setup. This is like me asking you if you've stopped beating your wife.
I love that, in your opinion, calling out What-aboutism is "intellectual dishonesty" but using it is totally OK.
I also love that you say you both answered the question, and also that you didn't because it was wrong to ask.
This is like me asking you if you've stopped beating your wife.
That's be easy to answer for anyone being honest. It's either "I never did", "yes", or "no". Someone who want to hide something may not answer the question though, and likely they'll do something to throw people off, like attacking them for something they did instead (aka, "what about..."). It's avoiding the question.
Calling whataboutism simply serves to set up a double standard for yourself and others. That's what makes it intellectually dishonest. Meanwhile, there is nothing intellectually dishonest about pointing out hypocrisy and double standards.
I also love that you say you both answered the question, and also that you didn’t because it was wrong to ask.
I answered your question by explaining to you in detail why the question is nonsensical. US is currently supporting fascists in Ukraine, trying to compare that to US supporting allies fighting against fascists in WW2 is backwards. The fact that you can't comprehend that says volumes.
That’s be easy to answer for anyone being honest. It’s either “I never did”, “yes”, or “no”. Someone who want to hide something may not answer the question though, and likely they’ll do something to throw people off, like attacking them for something they did instead (aka, “what about…”). It’s avoiding the question.
Once again you missed the whole point there which is setting up a false premise and then trying to get the other person to work within that premise. This is precisely what you did with your question. Pointing that out isn't avoiding the question it's calling out your bullshit.
You libs always want to demand every single historical event be perceived and analyzed in a vacuum. This is why you get mocked so often.
The yanks were funding the WWII Nazis before they 'sent supplies to the allies'.
More What-aboutism to dodge answering the question. That's expected, and it's about as good as an answer to me and anyone paying attention.
You brought up the example of the US in relation to WWII. If you make a comparison, you can't get stroppy when people point out that it contradicts your main argument and in fact supports the argument that you're trying to challenge.
However, for as long as you think the US is the Good GuyTM, you're going to struggle to find examples that support your viewpoint, so you may want to be careful with any comparison. Otherwise, you'll start to notice a pattern of them pointing out that the US was as monstrous as always in the cited example and then you'll say they're doing whataboutism ad infinitum.
It doesn't contradict my example. Companies are not the government.
I don't think the US are "the good guys." There aren't good guys in international politics. They don't do things for moral reasons. I do think the invaders are bad, whichever war were talking about. The US happens to be giving supplies to the people fighting off an invasion now and in WWI and WWII.
You still didn't answer the god damn question. Again, expected. You guys never answer the fucking question. You just go on offense because then you get to act smart and in control, but it makes you look weak and stupid. If you can't answer a simple question then what good is your opinion?
The reason it seems like I'm dodging the question is because if I can challenge the assumptions in the question and show that it's a faulty question, the answer becomes irrelevant. Still, if you keep reading, you'll see that I have provided an answer below.
As for my opinion, it's like anyone else's. It isn't worth much. My statements of fact, however… in a world where people try to paint the US in a positive light, endlessly making distinctions to deny any blame to the US state for all the horror that it unleashes on the world… probably also not worth much.
I either make a logical argument that stands up to scrutiny or I don't. If my argument stands up, it doesn't matter whether I look like a weak idiot. If my argument fails, it doesn't matter if I pretend control or to appear smart or to act it.
For a bourgeois state, it is ahistorical to separate the government from it's businesses. Companies and the government go hand in hand. It was, for example, the East India Company, rather than the British 'state', that colonised so much of Asia.
In relation to WWII and the US-Nazi connection, Michael Parenti wrote in Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism (City Lights Books, CA, 1997, p17):
Corporations like DuPont, Ford, General Motors, and ITT owned factories in enemy countries that produced fuel, tanks, and planes that wreaked havoc on Allied forces. After the war, instead of being prosecuted for treason, ITT collected $27 million from the U.S. government for war damages inflicted on its German plants by allied bombings. General Motors collected over $33 million. Pilots were given instructions not to hit factories in Germany that were owned by U.S. firms. Thus Cologne was almost levelled by Allied bombing but it's Ford plant, providing military equipment for the Nazi army, was untouched; indeed German civilians began using the plant as an air raid shelter. [Citing Charles Higham, Trading with the Enemy (Dell, NY, 1983).]
Fn14: After the war, Herman Abs, head of the Deutsche Bank and in effect "Hitler's paymaster," was hailed by David Rockefeller as "the most important banker of our time." … Rockefeller [failed to say] a word about Abs' Nazi connections, his bank's predatory incursions across Nazi occupied Europe, and his participation, as a board member of I.G. Farben, in the use of slave labor at Auschwitz: Robert Karl Miller, Portland Free Press, Sept/Oct 1994
All this, and we haven't really touched on:
- the way that US state officials intervened to—
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- protect Nazi war criminals from prosecution at Nuremberg,
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- rehabilitate and promote Nazi officials to lead NATO,
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- doing the all this with Mussolini and others,
- how the US ruling class platformed Nazis in the US press and silenced critical domestic voices,
- the relationship between the US government and its ruling bourgeois, the familial relations.
The US is to be applauded for is role in defeating the Nazi war machine, including supplying the allies. The US soldiers who fought the Nazis were heroes. But it is problematic to claim the US (i.e. it's ruling class) was on the right side of history through that period.
Likewise, in Ukraine, the US worsened the whole mess, possibly caused it all, by meddling in the region since before the 90's. Since the recent invasion US media and spokespersons have been nonchalantly saying the US has reaped many benefits from the war with very little cost (except for Ukrainians—added in parentheses, as if the Ukrainians are of secondary concern).
I do think the invaders are bad, whichever war were talking about.
I think we agree in principle and I think I know what you mean but I must raise a challenge. There's an example that shows an invasion is not necessarily bad, the one that you pointed out: the Allies invading Nazi Germany.
If invasion is not bad in one example situation, then logically it doesn't hold as a blanket statement. It cannot of itself lead us to conclude that Russia is bad for invading Ukraine. To be clear, I am not saying Russia is good for invading Ukraine; I'm saying it is not self evidently bad by virtue of being the invader.
To further the clear statement, I wish Russia had not invaded. I wish the war would end today. Short of that I wish a ceasefire could be negotiated for today, so that peace and an end to the war can be negotiated for the near future.
No flippant comments about how dangerous war is for the workers who must fight in it. Only firm conviction that the only right choice is to stop the killing and maiming as soon as possible, not to send increasingly dangerous weapons with increasingly higher chances of causing collateral damage.
Unfortunately for Ukraine, the US wanted the opposite at all stages and it's representatives (officials and corporate agents) have machinated to ensure that war broke out and now that it cannot stop.
Have you ever played 4x games? Do you know what encirclement is? When an opponent is ringing your territory with bases while they keep telling you it's totally cool bro, they're just working on their defenses while making alliances with players adjacent to you, what do you consider is their end game?
Yeah, everyone Russia has invaded has been for defence. Sure buddy. The real world is more complex than a 4X game, but even then you can use that to understand why someone would invade another country. They wanted to steal the resources and population. You may use your statement as a justification, but it is never the actual reason. The excuse of it being defensive is rediculous. Yeah, invading a sovereign country (multiple times) is sure to make the alliance "encircling" you stop. Seriously? Do you believe that rhetoric or are you just saying it because you're supposed to?
- if Ukraine lose completely most of ukrainans living in Ukraine simply get extriminated or forcely assimilated.
- Russia started the war when invided Ukraine in 2014. not sure where the "using" is.
tell me what's right. I'm ukrainian living in Ukraine. but please, your bs about дамбілі бамбас won't work
btw Im not happy with NATO neither with western history. I just know personally what russian imperialistic shit looks like
Yeah and I'm Ukrainian too, on the Jewish side of my family
I know why I don't have any family left in
and it ain't the Russianstheir relatives were Jews killed in WW2 by the Nazis and Ukrainian collaborateurs like Bandera. That's abundantly clear from context
not clear at all. no mention about ww2 in his comment. moreover we did not talk about ww2 before, so this is most likely a watabolistic attempt justifying killing ukrainians because some of our ancestors were participating in pogroms of jews.
if we were talking about xx and previous centuries, then I would also mention crimes done by russians, poles and germans toward ukrainians
Regarding antisemitism, I would also mention that pogroms in the russian empire especially in places jews were allowed to live in (see the Pale of Settlement) and in europe were common.
Collaborants were everywhere in europe, america and russia. Regarding latter, see nazi-soviet parade in Brest-Litovsk as an example. But for some reason you only mentrion ukrainians and Bandera.
Yes we are talking about Ukraine right now which is why Ukraine is coming up a lot
as I understand their point they were saying that as Ukrainian nationalists tried to kill their family they are not especially sympathetic to the cause of Ukrainian nationalism. I may be wrong of course but that is what I interpreted their statement as meaning
The Ukrainians that the regime has been abusing for the past 8 years sure do, here's some CNN reporting you might want to watch https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
Wow I can't believe you'd post a video from known Moscow-backed front organization... CNN?
Putin puppets have infiltrated the highest echelons of liberal media. That's the only plausible explanation for this.
Russia does not need the west to weaken it, comrade, it is perfectly capable of doing that on its own!
Maybe try engaging with reality? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-11/russia-s-war-economy-is-on-course-to-recover-from-sanctions-hit
You expect me to pay for an article from a neolib shitstain outlet?
Have another neolib shitstain outlet, this time for free: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-economy-brain-drain-labor-shortage-workforce-exodus-capital-flight-2023-9
The truth is that it's all quite hard to measure as Russia is lying about its economical figures (they make no sense whatsoever) and going via secondary indicators is possible, but also frought with uncertainty. But two things really stand out: a) investing in a war you're losing is GDP flushed down the drain, b) they're cut off from any advanced technology at even half-way reasonable prices, c) massive brain drain, there's also d) report of very excessive inflation when it comes to food.
If they manage to raise GDP by exporting more oil or whatnot -- that's raising GDP. It's not actually doing the country any good. More petrorubles for the kleptocrats.
But all that is rather besides the point. Russia, alongside with Ukraine, did a lot of stuff wrong in the 90s. Look at Estonia or e.g. Czechs (if you want to keep it among Slavs) on how to do it... nah, not right, but definitely better.
Ukraine then managed to turn around, develop an actual civil society and clip the wings of the oligarchy, Russia didn't. That is what I mean with "perfectly capable of messing up on their own". It's also the reason for the war it's a matter of regime stability: There's plenty of family ties between Russia and Ukraine, if Russians see that Ukraine can escape the yoke of the kleptocrats then they could start to believe that they, too, can do that.
I expect you to have minimal technical literacy to put the link URL in archive.
The truth is that there is no actual evidence to indicate that Russian economy is struggling in any way.
a) investing in a war you’re losing is GDP flushed down the drain
That certainly explains why Europe is in a deep recession now and why US economy is looking shaky.
b) they’re cut off from any advanced technology at even half-way reasonable prices
Once you look at a map you'll realize that Russia shares a huge border with China where all the advanced technology is produced nowadays. Trade between Russia and China has shot up to over 200 billion this year.
c) massive brain drain
Very little evidence for that actually happening, the article you linked is written by the same people who claimed Russia was a gas station with nukes, and that Russian economy was going to collapse months after western sanctions were imposed. If you haven't figured out that you've been lied to yet, that really says a lot about you.
d) report of very excessive inflation when it comes to food.
Russia has very low food inflation and happens to be one of the major food producers globally. Once again, the fact that you think Russia has food inflation says volumes.
But all that is rather besides the point. Russia, alongside with Ukraine, did a lot of stuff wrong in the 90s. Look at Estonia or e.g. Czechs (if you want to keep it among Slavs) on how to do it… nah, not right, but definitely better.
We're now seeing Russia having made it through two years of being cut off from the western economy, and doing well for itself. Meanwhile, countries like Estonia and Czech republic aren't doing so hot. And frankly, it's completely absurd to compare a country the size of Russia to a country like Estonia.
Ukraine then managed to turn around, develop an actual civil society and clip the wings of the oligarchy, Russia didn’t.
That's complete and utter horseshit. Ukraine turned into the most corrupt country in Europe, and things have only kept getting worse. Ukraine started as a big industrial power after USSR collapsed, and now it's been robbed entirely of anything of value.
There’s plenty of family ties between Russia and Ukraine, if Russians see that Ukraine can escape the yoke of the kleptocrats then they could start to believe that they, too, can do that.
What people in Russia see is that under west's leadership Ukraine managed to become worse than Russia. All that did was convince people in Russia that the west was going to fuck them over exactly the same way they fucked Ukraine over.
Ukraine turned into the most corrupt country in Europe, and things have only kept getting worse.
Ukraine and Russia both did. One of them is making efforts to get out of that swamp.
I find it rather telling that of all the things you found weak retorts for, you completely left out the "More petrorubles for the kleptocrats" part, and how GDP is not a proper measure of the wealth of a people, at least in any even remotely leftist sense.
Ask Tuvans without access to electricity, running water, heck even a fucking gas station, how wealthy they are. Yet they're not even counted as poor in the official statistics as the way poverty is counted in Russia is highly regional: If you're poor in Moscow you count, if you're infinitely worse off in the periphery you don't.
That is why you see Russian soldiers -- primarily from the periphery as joining the army is the only way to make any money as there's no actual jobs -- looting toilets. Fucking toilets. Back in WWII it was water faucets. Nothing the fuck has changed in that regard.
If you think that Putin is "draining the swamp" then you're no less naive than your run off the mill Trumpet.
(Side note, speaking of WWII: Remember that Soviet flag on the Reichstag picture? That's of a Ukrainian. Taken by a Ukrainian).
One of them is making efforts to get out of that swamp.
You must be referring to Russia here given that this is what's happening in Ukraine right now
- https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-corruption-scandal-crackdown-treason-ukraine-war-democracy-antac-anti-corruption-action-center/
- https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/in-ukraine-now-there-are-autocratic-tendencies-democracy-at-stake-rstd9nn3q
I find it rather telling that of all the things you found weak retorts for, you completely left out the “More petrorubles for the kleptocrats” part, and how GDP is not a proper measure of the wealth of a people, at least in any even remotely leftist sense.
There is zero indication to suggest that regular people in Russia are significantly effected in any way right now. Cost of food, housing, and other essentials has stayed stable.
That is why you see Russian soldiers – primarily from the periphery as joining the army is the only way to make any money as there’s no actual jobs – looting toilets. Fucking toilets. Back in WWII it was water faucets. Nothing the fuck has changed in that regard.
I mean if that's what you've convinced yourself of then what else is there to say to you.
If you think that Putin is “draining the swamp” then you’re no less naive than your run off the mill Trumpet.
No, I don't think Putin is draining any swamp, but I do think he runs a far more competent administration than western oligarchs.
(Side note, speaking of WWII: Remember that Soviet flag on the Reichstag picture? That’s of a Ukrainian. Taken by a Ukrainian).
And now thanks to the help from the west Ukraine is run by literal fascists. Maybe something you should reflect on.
In any case, this conversation is clearly pointless since you evidently live in an alternate reality. I'll just let you figure things out on your own and reconcile the fantasies you've built up with the real world as it becomes increasingly more difficult to ignore going forward.
"Looting toilets" is the funniest part. Do you really believe that Ukraine is such pauper country that invading soldiers couldn't loot anything more valuable than used toilets from occupied cities? It's required to have literally zero critical thinking in order not to understand that this is propagandistic bullshit.
People take PCs, jewellery, and smartphones with them when fleeing. You usually leave the toilet behind.
clip the wings of the oligarchy,
"Pandora Papers Reveal Offshore Holdings of Ukrainian President and his Inner Circle"
Like seriously, you're arguing that Ukraine's liberal democracy is somehow better than Russia, when the point of liberal democracies under late capitalism is to strip all the copper out of the walls (privatize, austeritize, union-bust), everywhere, all the time.
Ahh wonderful, time for so many future children to be born horribly disfigured via contaminated drinking water. Also don't forget all the booming cancer rates!
We have advanced beyond fighting to the last Ukranian and are now involving future Ukranians
You sure seem angry about someone not wanting children harmed
Can't wait for Azov to become the new Taliban and bite America in the ass
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File size requirements made me create this low res monstrosity lmao, also please do replace the Tilted Towers for the Palace of Culture and Sciences for thr more realistic scenario.
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"Lol, how could people in the past be so dumb? Anyway, I'm off to give cluster bombs to some Nazi paramilitary groups."
TIL. Apparently what it actually said was "The Gallant People of Afghanistan," but the point is largely the same.
That's what the rumor said, but googling seems to indicate it was a hoax. Though like I said the original is basically the same thing.
I mean who else it could even mean in USA movie? Especially considering what was in that particular movie.
bite America in the ass
It won't be America it bites in the ass; they'll be a deadly menace to their neighbors in the West (as I would imagine Russia is going to remain on its toes about armed Ukrainian militias). They've been pretty open about their far right views. Frankly this was actually a brilliant strategy for the government; much like how they turned the Middle East into nations yearning for America's protection, so too will the rest of (Western) Europe now become new clients. As a business strategy it's brilliant, my only question is why European governments and the idiots who vote for them over there actually going along with this; you're watching the car careening towards the cliff, why are you cheering the guy pushing it from behind rather than slamming on the brakes.
Even the Taliban didn't commit 9/11 until the US had already been engaged in military actions in Afghanistan for years by that point. War profiteering is the point.
https://twitter.com/maxblumenthal/status/1698195427172945944?s=46&t=mO-5zqql6YG39RPsMYhC_Q
That guy is about as real as the elections in a Soviet country.
There's no proof he's ever even been to Ukraine 😂
about as real as the elections in a Soviet country
Because capitalist elections between corporate donors are so real lmao
Are you going to vote for Bloomberg or Blackstone next year? Good little piggy.
You Americans are something else. There's a world outside your little shithole bubble you know.
I'm not even American. Our economy is global and America is the imperial core of that economy.
One of my local PMs was caught taking bribes from the NRA a few years back ffs
Seems like a guy who would have fit right in: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Aw jeez his made up record would have fit right into this article?
Who cares he's still not real.
How do you know? So it is just your opinion? There is a video with testimony - what exactly do you got that makes you so sure?
There's literally no proof he's ever been to Ukraine. You want me to prove a negative. Good luck with that.
Edit: lol I'm gonna do the impossible. He couldn't have been in Ukraine while being simultaneously in prison.
Every person involved in making this decision deserves to be buried in an unmarked grave with the weapons they love so much. How many innocent people completely uninvolved with the war are going to grow up suffering the effects of depleted uranium rounds? Another absolutely monstrous decision in a long line of monstrous decisions by the US government.
Yes, we get it, the response to literally every decision you don't like is massacre of the people you don't like
Are you aware of what depleted uranium does to the human body? Innocent people are going to be dealing with the consequences of a decision made by a handful of people across the planet for decades after the war ends. Does poisoning generations of people sound like "defending" Ukrainians to you?
depleted uranium is a radioactive carcinogen, and linked to substantial increases in birth defects and cancer in Iraq
Who said it was? It's still an environmental contaminant, a carcinogen, and linked to a rise in birth defects after its use in Iraq
It's use will have consequences far outside of the conflict and ruin the lives of who knows how many people who had absolutely no say in this war and I'm supposed to cheer it on?
The op is specifically about depleted uranium but hey, if you want to make the case that we shouldn't be sending weapons to Ukraine in the first place I'm not going to argue against it
In that case, why do you pretend to care only about certain weapons when you don't want any weapons sent?
you tankies seem particularly mad about the use of agent orange in vietnam when what you really want is for the US to pull out, huh
pee pee poo poo
Depleted uranium is still a very dangerous heavy metal. It just doesn't irradiate what it poisons.
- Yes, I'm aware of the effects of depleted uranium on the human body; are you? 2) What would you propose to help Ukraine evict the genocidal invaders from its territory?
Non radioactive munitions.
Show this thread to someone from the 1980s and they would kill themselves. Mainly over your shit
No analysis, just vibes. Gonna go genocide some mashed potatoes rn
Just stepped in someones front yard without permission, which is technically an invasion, and ive been told this is tantamount to genocide. Am I an imperialist war criminal, Hexbear?
What would you propose to help Hawaii evict genocidal invaders from its territory?
It's almost like I've seen this same redfash response multiple times 🤔
Redfash one hell of an oxymoron considering the reds are in the habit of killing fash.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
"You are treating a specific example like a broad generalization to deflect someone's valid point"
vs.
"Heard that one before
"
What do you think should be done with war profiteers that destroy societies for money?
They aren't that dangerous as a weapon of war. The uranium is depleted, as the name suggest. The alternative is heavy metal, which is also dangerous to breathe in. It's war and it sucks for health. Maybe there shouldn't have been an invasion...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7903104/ this shit is still causing birth defects in Iraq. This is Ukraine's future now.
And so do other heavy metals. What do you suggest they use that won't have negative health impacts (which is ironic for something designed to kill, but whatever)?
Any heavy metal causes similar issues. Heavy metal will be used, whether it's uranium or something else. Should they just stop shooting?
Unironically yes. A peace deal was in the works last year until, according to the Ukranian Pravda, Boris Johnson pressured Zelensky not to go through with it. This would have stopped the fighting and resulted in some withdrawal of Russian troops, but since the West is more interested in weakening their geopolitical rivals and helping the weapons industry rake in profit than ending the war, they squashed any possibility of that happening.
Uranium is a very dangerous heavy metal, it just isn't radioactive.
Depleted Uranium is definitely radioactive. It's depleted but there are still radioactive isotopes in it. It's relatively same to handle until it's fired and some of it turns to dust. The dust is both poisonous and radioactive. The toxicity of it is probably worse than the radiation but they're both still bad.
The radioactivity is a problem its just like, not significant compared. Sorry my b
Nowhere did I make the claim that it was, that doesn't change a thing
Yet more confirmation that the West regards Ukrainians as subhuman, and that they know they're not getting the territory back. Generations of birth defects, the unexploded bombs that cluster bombs leave behind, more and more people being drafted and shoved into a meat grinder in a war that's already lost, just so some American ghouls can make a bit of extra cash off their Raytheon stocks.
None of this was worth it. But it's going to keep happening. The US will keep arming Nazis and pushing war over diplomacy and destabilizing everything until something is done to get rid of those bastard war profiteers and the ghouls who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan.
This shit's so fucking stupid. Can't wait for the chickenhawks to call me a bad person while sitting behind their keyboards demanding others be forced to fight in their stead.
although the Ukrainians using such rounds in Ukraine also seem to regard other Ukrainians as subhuman
dropping a bunch of depleted uranium around seems a lot like the actions of a state that couldn't give less of a shit about the wellbeing of the people living there
"To the last Ukrainian" is no longer enough, now future Ukrainians have to die too.
tankie is when you think it is bad to knowingly poison children
you know when we met I was on the fence about anarcho-natoism but your warm wit and gentle compassion over the course of our acquaintance has really brought me around. Thank you
Why would I blow myself up if I was using a drone you dumb fuck. Jesus you guys are dumb.
Offer still stands chud. I heard that they massively lowered conscription requirements, so now you have a chance to join. 😘
I'm just glad that as an Adult in the room, I'm on the right side of history. Arming Ukranian Nazis with depleted uranium is actually the least evil option and anyone who doesn't understand that is a child.
Another 50 billion for the cause!
riGhT SidE oF hIsTOry: https://twitter.com/maxblumenthal/status/1698195427172945944?s=46&t=mO-5zqql6YG39RPsMYhC_Q
Luckily, the uranium dust is only a problem if the Ukrainian tanks actually get in sight of the Russians.
Turns out UK managed to develop stealth tanks and didn't tell anybody.
Why though? Can't imagine that these rounds are going to change the course of the war, so why? Are they out of non-Uranium ones?
Imagine being this bloodthirsty you're willing to let Ukrainians suffer the effects of depleted uranium just to kill more Russians
"Opposing the poisoning of masses of innocent people who had no say in the war is propaganda. I am very smart!"
it's kind of impressive how consistently we get the dumbest takes possible from lemmy.ee
I think Russia would be the most bloodthirsty if this was a contest. Good try though.
The body count of the West is several orders of magnitude higher than Russia's
Please don't use that against them, even as a bit as it's extremely powerful and causes irreperable emotional damage. Be mindful, libs are people too.
They are harder and penetrate armour better. So yes they will provide an advantage.
The sooner Russian occupiers are no longer murdering Ukrainians and dropping mines over every square meter of land, the less harm comes to Ukrainians.
Tungsten penetrators perform better than DU ones. They're just more expensive and Ukrainian lives aren't worth that much.
Plenty enough to rip through the Russian armor! These are just old stockpiles of ammunition that weren't getting use anyways.
Love to get rid of my toxic waste by simply poisoning a different populace
I know it hard for the recently scratched liberals to understand this, but It's perfectly okay to decommission a weapon, you don't have to use it on people to get rid of it.
OP is known tankie just fyi. Doesn't justify US or Ukrainian actions but make sure you understand that the reason for posting this isn't out of any actual concern for human beings. They're also peddling covid conspiracies
They posted a Reuters article
Is that an evil tankie propaganda website now?
Ah but they posted the Reuters article maliciously. In a scheming, tankie sort of way.
So let me get this straight, according to you:
The people that don't support either side of the war and want to end it as fast as possible through peace talks are evil tankies.
And the bloodthirsty monsters that want to prolong a pointless war, arm Azov Nazis and kill as many people as possible with illegal inhumane weapons that scar generations are freedom-loving liberals.
Seems like the tankies are the more reasonable ones in this situation.
Damn, imagine hating women to own the Russians then whining when you get called out for being a misogynistic pig
otherwise it’ll completely legitimise nations to start wars to take land for themselves
Have you been sleeping for the last decades? There were plenty of wars. The US didn't stop them, in fact, the US started a bunch of them, and more were started by US allies, or waged with US help. The US supports illegal occupation ("taking land") all over, too.
So is there actually any norm anyone adheres to? Seems to me the actual norm is "don't do anything the US doesn't like". It's got nothing to do with starting wars or taking land.
otherwise it’ll completely legitimise nations to start wars to take land for themselves
no one tell this guy what a nation is it'll break his heart
This isn't a children's movie, there is no good guy in this war.
No one fucking wins, if Azov 'wins' then Ukraine will become even more of a Nazi shithole and a husk of an economy as the US calls in all its debts. If Russia 'wins' then it won't be much better off either.
Nobody wants bloodshed. Ukraine didn't ask for this war.
Than advocate for peace talks instead of grinding more Ukrainians and Russians into paste, you bloodthirsty ghoul.
But they're not going to give up and let Russia get away with a land grab.
See? You do want bloodshed. You care more about dirt than human life.
There are only two outcomes of this war: A bloody long battle where innocent people get thrown in the meatgrinder regardless of which side comes out on top, or we get both sides to stop fighting and do peace talks so they can compromise and stop the killing as soon as possible. Nothing good will ever come out of this war. It needs to end as soon as possible to stop the bloodshed. The concern here should be stopping the loss of life as soon as possible, not caring about lines on a fucking map. For supposedly being pro-Ukraine, NATO sure loves killing Ukrainians.
The people that don't support either side of the war
They (and you) are clearly supporting Russia.
If we're supporting capitalist Russia the same way NATO tools are supporting Nazi Ukraine then where are our comments saying we should send money and weapons to Russia to defeat the Ukrainian 'orcs', then? Show me where these pro-Russia comments are, I'll wait.
Get real, none of us have said anything in support of modern capitalist Russia. We're communists ffs, would we really support the thing that killed the Soviet Union? Use your head.
Next, you'll tell me that people against the war on terror in the Middle East were on the side of the Taliban.
Probably the conspiracy that the virus is still a pandemic and people are still dying and we should all wear masks, you know the truth
Orcs
The only time before the Ukraine War that I saw this term used to refer to real human beings was on Stormfront
Libs saw the events unfolding and were all like "YES! Now I can do socially acceptable racism! ORCORCORCORCORCORC"
more concerned about DU slicing through the dna of ukrainian children for years after the war like in Iraq
Stuka username claiming others aren't concerned about Ukrainians lmao
Remind me what the nazis did in Ukraine again?
I've had this username for a two decades and you tankies are the only ones to ever call me a nazi.
Know why? Cause I've never said a damn thing to support nazis. Yall just assume everyone's as batshit crazy and fanatical as you.
I can hear your frustration as you search my history.
Read this in the voice of a screaming German grandpa shaking his fist, tightly clutching a war medal. Hilarious
Yall just assume everyone's as batshit crazy and fanatical as you.
You are currently celebrating the genetic destruction of future generations of Ukranian people. An actually genocidal act.
The nazis invaded and raped, tortured, and killed Ukrainians, which is why they're fighting back.
Hell Yes brother, we'll finally drown those Azov bastards in the Dnieper. We fought them for eight long years and we'll do it again if we have to.
Maybe you're getting confused by the thread, but I'm not supporting russians
Neither are we, but we sure as shit aren't cheering for NATOs Nazis either.
What world issue isnt a convenient excuse for you people to shame the western Left?? (who has no direct connection to the conflict, nor should they, no matter how it's spun)
Imagine having a brain so smooth that you think abrams are going to fare any better than the leopards.
The first wunderwaffen didn't work but that's OK, the president says he's sending more wunderwaffen
I mean if these people were capable of rational thinking then they wouldn't be liberals in the first place.
Bloodthirsty liberal Nazis cheering for generations of genetic deformity to prolong a pointless war between two fascist capitalist forces
beep beep beep
