christian socialists are key to breaking american red scare propaganda in gen x and older populations.
no questions, just thanks for being you.
You said you don't subscribe to any denomination of Christianty, do you believe in any particular subset of socialism?
I'm an atheist but ive always been drawn to Jesus as a character, the message of universal love and rejection of wealth is so strong I honestly don't know how someone could read about him and come to any other conclusion then socialism.
I still haven't found my niche, but I'll see if I find it soon
Episcopalians seem pretty open to socialism. Also some of the earliest interactions of what would come to be known as socialism were Christian in root
- I'm a non-denominational
- I go sometimes because my parents are Atheists. While I don't know personally the congregation, the town I live in is pretty conservative, so that's a no from me.
What are your thoughts on hierarchy? Are humans subjugated by a greater cosmic entity?
It depends on which of the two eldritch entities you are talking about. if you're talking about Satan, yes. If you're talking about God no. We are being subjugated by Satan, which is why there is so much evil in the world but not by God.
What is the relationship between god and humans in your eyes? If it isn't a hierarchy.
It is a hierarchy, never did I deny that, but it is a hierarchy that's just, like a father and his son
Because Christianity doesn’t exist outside of, and was developed specifically within, Earth. So I’m wondering what about Christianity specifically, as it relates to establishing hierarchy and subjugation, would even remotely apply to a system of life elsewhere in the universe that may not operate within such frameworks of hierarchy and subjugation. That’s been the dominant force of civilized humanity and religion for us of course, but if the framework of Christianity doesn’t even make sense for say another form of life, anthropologically speaking, then claims of universality start to break down I think.
But we are talking about God and not Christianity alone. Who cares if Christianity was developed on Earth? The God we worship is present everywhere, even in the other possible civilizations
But our entire understanding and moral framework of this god is only applicable to our experience as humans though right? If another form of life had an entirely different understanding of their god, based on their anthropological development and relative moral systems, how do we know we're each referring to the same god? Or if we're not, how do we know which interpretation is right? I think the answer for me is, we can't really ever solve that question, because each concept of god is a relative construct. And so talking about it on the level of which one is "right" doesn't apply and is just as illogical as asking which one of these life forms is more "correct." I guess I'm just struggling to understand one species claiming the god developed within their framework applies to other species and supersedes that other species' claim of a universal god which came from their own framework.
Why are there only two eldritch entities? Could there be another we weren’t told about, because those around to tell us didn’t know themselves?
It was the religion I comprehended the most when I was an Atheist. I read the Gospel of Matthew and found some leftist teachings in there, from no one but the big boy himself, Jesus Christ
Some are true, some are fake, some true ones have stuff added in that Paul didn't write, some true letters had the name of Junia (a female apostle, which was very good friends with Paul) to Junias, changing it into a male. It's complicated.
I really like that answer. Thankyou for sharing it ❤️
Not taking the whole bible, as well, scripture, how do you decide which bits to take as a matter of faith and which bits to discard?
What would you say is the core of your faith? What (if any) beliefs/pieces of scripture that resonate with you most and you can draw strength from?
What are your thoughts on loving our enemies when it comes to revolutionary struggle? Is it desirable/possible/effective to agitate for revolution without spreading hate?
What brand of Socialist are you?
What is to be done?
What is to be done specifically about the issue of cats that are outside?
About deciding which parts are truthful, I have read several progressive studies (the names, I can't remember) and took what I learned from that. The pieces of scripture that resonate with me the most are Matthew 19:24 and 21:12-17 It is desirable and effective to "convert", let's say people to Marxism, adding them to our ranks, but some people cant be converted and unfortunately have to be taken out by force. But we should keep casualties low. I still haven't yet decided for a brand of socialism. I don't know what you mean about cats.
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” 29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. [a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. ’[b] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. ’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.”
Mark 12:28-31
effectively apocryphal
Pretty upset that the history of canonical scholarship has been swept from on-the-ground Christian teaching, probably by the Catholic Church giving the Latin Vulgate the Pope stamp of Definitely The Bible, and protestants mostly accepting this. Imagine if every Christian grew up taught to carefully test the authority of the inherited truth of the holy texts, in part and wholly.
Trinity, Transubstantiation, Miracles----any opinions?
Also are you American
I believe in the trinity and in miracles, but not as much in transubstantiation. Also, I'm Argentinian
Interesting. You weren't kidding about non-denominational lol
Hey me too! At least, I'm a DSA member and attend a church. Lately I've been leaning more towards communism and a non-dogmatic Jesus-focused philosophy that would be called heretical by fundamentalists. My church is full of well-meaning libs and I've been trying to educate them on socialism.
There's dozens of us! Dozens!
Yes. In fact, Socialism is what made me a Christian in the first place.
Can you give us a run-down of christian socialism?
When Jesus said "Render unto caeser what is caeser, and unto God what is God's" some Christians have historically taken this to mean "dont take part in real political struggle, focus on spiritual development" (in addition to the more literal "pay your taxes and pay tithe") How do you interpret that?
Similarily, how do you feel about Jesus saying "my kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were my servants would have been fighting..."
This one is a layup question, but I thinj it might help for it to be spelled out to anyone curious. Where do you root socialism in Christianity? Jesus gave many commands to take care of the poor, to love and aid your neighbor (including people youd normally hate), and in the time of Acts Christians claimed no property as their own. What about you?
All of the gospels pretty much state that some of the Pharisees were essentially trying to ask him a gotcha question, to get him in trouble with Roman authorities.
Bring me a denarius[b] and let me look at it.” 16 And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.” 17 Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”
It's been awhile since I was in sunday school, so don't quote me, but it seems to me Jesus is almost being a bit snarky.
"If Caesar wants the piece of metal with his face on it back, then return it to him, it is just money. Everything else, the things that matter, those are God's."
but again, I could be wrong.
"Render unto Caesars what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's", even though it might be interpreted as that, I don't really think it's that, and it seems pretty farfetched. Some Christian leftists interpret that as a separation of Church and State, which seems more probable. Even if it's not that political, it's definitively separating worship and spirituality, from political matters, which doesn't specifically prohibit political struggle. Regarding Jesus saying “My kingdom is not of this world", I don't think that's a political statement. His kingdom is not of this world because he doesn't have any royal titles. Yet, he is a "king" because in Christianity he is literally God. And regarding Socialism's rooting in Christianity, the examples you cited are the ones that everyone uses, besides Jesus driving out the merchants from the Temple and Jesus saying that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. On a sidenote, early Christianity was kinda communist. Engels wrote about that
Do you reject Marxist ideas like dialectical materialism?
I guess I mean can or how do you reconcile the existence of the Abrahamic God with materialism? If God is greater than matter than He cannot exist within the materialist concept of the universe which is why many materialists think man created God rather than the other way around. If God is matter why have we not found Him yet?
That is a good question. Gives you something to think about. But even if I rejected it, it would be the only or the very few that I deny outright.
No. I was an Atheist before Christianity (and I still am not baptized... YET)
What was the process of coming to faith like for you? The transition from atheist to believer is difficult for me to imagine so I'd love to hear how it happened for you.
Well, it was not that hard for me actually. The first few months I had a crisis of faith almost weekly, as I was trying to come to terms with Christianity, but after several hundreds of google searches, I had finally figured everything out. It was actually not as bad as it sounds, and it was, all in all, a learning experience.
But like, internally, what drove you to it? Why were you pursuing a spiritual answer in the first place, and why settle on Christianity?
I was scared shitless of death. That's why made me interested in spirituality. And I settled on Christianity because of three reasons:
- Living in Latin America, Christianity is all around me, with almost no other religions around.
- Christianity is less strict than other religions, like Islam or Judaism (which I believe are also compatible with Socialism)
- I got curious. And that curiosity led me to read the Gospel According to St. Matthew. And believe me, some of the verses in there are VERY socialist.
I've seen you mention in a few other comments that you're non-denominational, which is interesting in someplace where Catholicism is so dominant. Do you think you'll remain unaffiliated, or do you see yourself as on the path to deciding what type of Christianity resonates with you the most?
Assuming you believe that the bible is indeed the word of God, do you have any heuristics for where you draw the line between literal and metaphorical interpretations of the text? E.g., I saw that you said you believe in miracles but not transubstantiation and I wonder about how you personally make those kind of distinctions.
Well, I use some of my own interpretations and SOME observations from scholars, without partivular choosings. For exaple, how can Jesus be made out of literal bread? Answer: he isn't. He's a human. That's the whole point.
