Ironically, those protests are in international solidarity with the US BLM movement - not with the US black lives matter movement in international solidarity with Yemen/Libya/China/Nigeria or any other of the many nations under the yoke of US imperialism etc
You're literally arguing that a spontaneous mass movement against racism and police violence is reactionary, because people on the streets did not spontaneously learn Marxism and generate internationalist, class-conscious demands.
Your balkanization point was also wrong, there's nothing to be gained for the working class by dividing the US along lines that track the voter base of bourgeois parties , but that's sort of secondary to the worst "Marxist" analysis of race, racism, and social movements I've ever seen in my life.
though I would say anti-imperialism is more important
Might racism play some sort of role in maintaining US capitalism and its super-exploitation of workers abroad?
I deliberately cropped it to include the part where you said "The BLM movement represents social fascism as outlined by Stalin," but don't worry, I also linked to your comment so everyone can get the full context for your reactionary take.
idk, mate. the BLM protests in my city have unambiguously spent time on the international context -- especially Latin America. you're painting with a rather broad brush here.
Depends. Police Brutality is an issue that effects many people in different countries. In my country it was about a person that was assaulted by the police/army outside their house that eventually died of "blunt force trauma to the head" (Collins Khosa), as well as solidarity with the US protestors. Nigeria has recently had the end SARS protests about their police force. While there are definitely libs trying to co opt and conform the BLM movement to their own interests, there are some radical elements still present. I'm not trying to dunk on anyone, I just don't want to write off the entire BLM movement as social fascism because libs are trying to co opt it
The wiki list you posted is people in international solidarity with the US BLM movement - marching to the US embassy/lighting candles for George Floyd etc.
OP started to cry when I said USA should be balkanised and then posts a badly cropped picture of 1/4 of my comment
I just don’t want to write off the entire BLM movement as social fascism because libs are trying to co opt it
Actually it is the best movement to work in in US (cos US is so anticommunist) and I'm not saying dont work in it. Doesn't change the class character of the movement as it currently stands
Tbh, that entire thread was a dumpster fire. Also trots are still a thing outside of the UK and Seattle? (refering to the person calling themselves a trot here). That is the most surprising thing I've learned from this post
Trots are everywhere in the 1st world in my experience
They are the predominant trend in opportunism because under their ridiculous Permanent Revolution they end up holding contradictory views on imperialism that allows them to support NATO air strikes against Gadaffi , war in Syria and fascists in Belarus under the guise of fighting Stalinist Beaucracy.
If you go back to the Vietnam war American trots were supporting "Self determination for South Vietnam" - you couldn't make it up
Even if I were 100 percent wrong in that take: that BLM is not a predominantly liberal movement that has been increasingly, as time has gone on, been coopted by liberals (not less so)
Even if tomorrow we get 100 percent proof that I was wrong and I am humbled into self-criticism...
That's still nowhere near as bad as supporting Self determination for a US puppet state or supporting every US war since the 1970s like all the trot parties have done.
I went through your post history to see if you had any theoretical or historical clouth and could only find a thread where you shit on China (reddit moment!)
I don't agree that BLM represents social fascism considering how extremely fragmented the movement is (often times economics doesn't even figure into the conversation, especially at the street level), but I do agree that it is filled with opportunists at the higher levels. Just yesterday one of the founders wrote an open letter to the Biden/Harris admin that seemed very much like an attempt at getting some sort of employment within the administration.
But again, people seriously need to understand just how decentralized the movement is. There are BLM subsets that don't even get down with LGBT, and the founders themselves are all LGBT
I don't think there's a single trot in my country at the moment lol, though Trotsky apparently was in communication with South African communists 90 years ago.
i know trots were in latin america with the posadists being the most famous, i think argentina has a trot party, but here in Mexico trots arent organized as much as the MLs
Your point is based on the USA being a Labour Aristocracy, but Stalin's point is that Social Fascism is explicitly a Petit Bourgeois phenomenon. A Labour Aristocracy has the same overall objectives as the international working class but is being suppressed in consciousness by having less surplus labour extracted from them.
You might counter that the US working class earns enough from the exploitation of the empire that they're extracting more than their labour value, but a simple look at wages vs cost of living shows this not to be true.
The US should be balkanised, but not for that reason.
"There is zero internationalism in this movement"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests_outside_the_United_States
Where i live a BLM protest was organized at the same time there was a memorial for the Romani victims of the Holocaust.
Ironically, those protests are in international solidarity with the US BLM movement - not with the US black lives matter movement in international solidarity with Yemen/Libya/China/Nigeria or any other of the many nations under the yoke of US imperialism etc
Well done on proving my point
I've been dunked!
deleted by creator
I was giving a class exposition on the BLM protests because OP was upset I said USA should be balkanised
I wasn't saying to focus on one or the other (though I would say anti-imperialism is more important)
You're literally arguing that a spontaneous mass movement against racism and police violence is reactionary, because people on the streets did not spontaneously learn Marxism and generate internationalist, class-conscious demands.
Your balkanization point was also wrong, there's nothing to be gained for the working class by dividing the US along lines that track the voter base of bourgeois parties , but that's sort of secondary to the worst "Marxist" analysis of race, racism, and social movements I've ever seen in my life.
Might racism play some sort of role in maintaining US capitalism and its super-exploitation of workers abroad?
:sicko-yes: :amerikkka:
:party-parrot: :100-com: :anarkitty: :CommiePOGGERS: :back-to-me-shining: :match: :amerikkka:
Try actually responding to the argument.
I'm not interested in discussion with you.
We already discussed and you had to deliberately chop my comment at 1/4 the way through to shoehorn your disingenuous twisting of my words.
So have a nice day I hope civil war happens in US soon k bye
I deliberately cropped it to include the part where you said "The BLM movement represents social fascism as outlined by Stalin," but don't worry, I also linked to your comment so everyone can get the full context for your reactionary take.
idk, mate. the BLM protests in my city have unambiguously spent time on the international context -- especially Latin America. you're painting with a rather broad brush here.
Depends. Police Brutality is an issue that effects many people in different countries. In my country it was about a person that was assaulted by the police/army outside their house that eventually died of "blunt force trauma to the head" (Collins Khosa), as well as solidarity with the US protestors. Nigeria has recently had the end SARS protests about their police force. While there are definitely libs trying to co opt and conform the BLM movement to their own interests, there are some radical elements still present. I'm not trying to dunk on anyone, I just don't want to write off the entire BLM movement as social fascism because libs are trying to co opt it
The wiki list you posted is people in international solidarity with the US BLM movement - marching to the US embassy/lighting candles for George Floyd etc.
OP started to cry when I said USA should be balkanised and then posts a badly cropped picture of 1/4 of my comment
Actually it is the best movement to work in in US (cos US is so anticommunist) and I'm not saying dont work in it. Doesn't change the class character of the movement as it currently stands
Tbh, that entire thread was a dumpster fire. Also trots are still a thing outside of the UK and Seattle? (refering to the person calling themselves a trot here). That is the most surprising thing I've learned from this post
Trots are everywhere in the 1st world in my experience
They are the predominant trend in opportunism because under their ridiculous Permanent Revolution they end up holding contradictory views on imperialism that allows them to support NATO air strikes against Gadaffi , war in Syria and fascists in Belarus under the guise of fighting Stalinist Beaucracy.
If you go back to the Vietnam war American trots were supporting "Self determination for South Vietnam" - you couldn't make it up
Unlike the serious and sober perspective that “The BLM movement represents social fascism as outlined by Stalin"
Even if I were 100 percent wrong in that take: that BLM is not a predominantly liberal movement that has been increasingly, as time has gone on, been coopted by liberals (not less so)
Even if tomorrow we get 100 percent proof that I was wrong and I am humbled into self-criticism...
That's still nowhere near as bad as supporting Self determination for a US puppet state or supporting every US war since the 1970s like all the trot parties have done.
I went through your post history to see if you had any theoretical or historical clouth and could only find a thread where you shit on China (reddit moment!)
I don't agree that BLM represents social fascism considering how extremely fragmented the movement is (often times economics doesn't even figure into the conversation, especially at the street level), but I do agree that it is filled with opportunists at the higher levels. Just yesterday one of the founders wrote an open letter to the Biden/Harris admin that seemed very much like an attempt at getting some sort of employment within the administration.
But again, people seriously need to understand just how decentralized the movement is. There are BLM subsets that don't even get down with LGBT, and the founders themselves are all LGBT
Do you think that social democracy is fascism?
i seen trots here in Mexico, but pro stalin mls are still the majority
I don't think there's a single trot in my country at the moment lol, though Trotsky apparently was in communication with South African communists 90 years ago.
https://www.leftvoice.org/letters-from-leon-trotsky-on-south-africa
i know trots were in latin america with the posadists being the most famous, i think argentina has a trot party, but here in Mexico trots arent organized as much as the MLs
Your point is based on the USA being a Labour Aristocracy, but Stalin's point is that Social Fascism is explicitly a Petit Bourgeois phenomenon. A Labour Aristocracy has the same overall objectives as the international working class but is being suppressed in consciousness by having less surplus labour extracted from them.
You might counter that the US working class earns enough from the exploitation of the empire that they're extracting more than their labour value, but a simple look at wages vs cost of living shows this not to be true.
The US should be balkanised, but not for that reason.