for background info, the chinese government does not ban the actual associate of winnie pooh to xin unless it is used to promote racism contrary to the claim by the red fascist tankiejerkers, liberal sloganists, and the NATO-backed hong kong rioters by young students who never know about the period before the return of hong kong to chinese rule. The liberal sloganists justify the racist act on the claim that it is directed towards an oppressive dictator, but they cannot explain why they attack a 'tyrant' for their chinese ethnicity and appearance instead of their morality. For more suspicions, the winnie pooh association of Xi Ping in chinese hate crime propaganda are from people who contradict their hong kong independence slogan with return to british colonial rule and who believe that british immigrants are the only true 'hong kongers'.
These colonial worshipping kids have been kneeling so long that they've forgotten how to stand.
Their beloved 'prime minister' Churchill has quotes that wouldn't feel out of place in Hitler's collection:
“I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion”
[the Pashuns] needs to “recognise the superiority of race”
“I hate people with slit eyes and pigtails. I don’t like the look of them or the smell of them — but I suppose it does no great harm to have a look at them.”
We shall have to take the Chinese in hand and regulate them… as civilised nations become more powerful they will get more ruthless, and the time will come when the world will impatiently bear the existence of great barbaric nations who may at any time arm themselves and menace civilized nations. I believe in the ultimate partition of China—I mean ultimate. I hope we shall not have to do it in our day. The Aryan stock is bound to triumph.
The last one still rings true with the "just the government not the people" libs nowadays.
The last one is utterly jaw-dropping, not necessarily because I'm surprised Churchill said it, but how this sentiment has hardly suffered a dent in the contemporary "western" zeitgeist.
Replace a few words, trade "Aryan" for "European", "civilized" for "developed", and "barbaric" for "authoritarian"... boom, you've got a chart-topping WaPo OpEd.
nations become more powerful they will get more ruthless, and the time will come when the world will impatiently bear the existence of great barbaric nations who may at any time arm themselves and menace civilized nations
the west is the one that's done all that and keeps doing it.
Reminds me of how white Americans say they "don't want to be a minority in their own country." It's guilty projection. They just assume anyone in their position would act as beastly as they have.
that is very interesting, the though that they internalized that though so much thay they are afraid other people are like then.
i saw a person saying once that most west science fiction is about alien invasion, beings from far away with technology beyond our comprehension to massacre us to steal our resources, they project themselves into their stories, the colonizing monster.
while soviet scifi the aliens are communists, they surpassed many contradictions from their society, them they go roaming the universe help other races in surpassing those contradictions.
good to find a like minded person, i was just thinking something like that, that democracy x authoritarian is just rebranded colonial thinking, you paint a target in a country to justify intervening in it
Exactly. Sometimes people will defend it with some supposed high-minded origin, like "it's not saying being gay is wrong, it's using trump's homophobia and insecurity against him and turning it into a vulnerability that we're using to trigger him". And maybe some of the people repeating it actually believe that, but the images don't come with a paragraph explaining the nuance. They're just supposed to be an easy shot at trump, you're supposed to laugh and keep scrolling. Most people liking or sharing them aren't thinking about it any more than "haha, he's owned cause he's gay".
You can spend all day convincing yourself that your specific way of thinking about it isn't racist/homophobic, but when you share this shit online all that stuff stays in your head, and you're just spreading bigotry.
Yeah, and even if they genuinely believe it, the message is still "gay = bad". They are either telling on their internalized bigotry or willfully ignoring the hurt it causes to the actual victims of that bigotry
And the same libs are the first to cry "reverse racism" when they hear even the slightest criticism of whiteness
It really falls apart any way you look at it, but some of them seem to believe they’re the one person who is immune to propaganda and has complete control over their biases and associations. Like, okay even if that’s true, what happens now that you shared it with people that aren’t as big-brained as you.
also depicting Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh isn't banned in China because it personally offended him and he's like a petty tyrant king. It's because misrepresenting the government is illegal and they take that seriously. Maybe from my stupid western perspective it's going a little too far, but also China wouldn't tolerate something like a Qanon movement, or orther wild ass conspiracy theories, so at least they have that going on.
How is a meme "misrepresenting the government" is someone going to look at the picture and think "yes, that's clearly literal, China is run by a anthropomorphic teddy bear from literature".
it's a blanket ban on anything that could be considered defamation or caricature of government officials. Like I said I actually think it's going too far, but I get the idea. It's to stop conspiracy theories and wild rumors before they start. Like I don't know, a person doesn't have to believe it's literal. A confused person could come to any weird conclusions like that Xi Jinping works for Disney or that he played Winnie the Pooh in a movie. I don't know the exact argument but it otherwise tracks with the ban on misrepresentation. Take it up with the Chinese state, not me, but it seems like something very minor to even care about. "I can't call the president a cartoon bear" yeah ok do something else with your time then, who gives a shit
Why does it have to be a binary? It's possible to have freedom of speech and a well run nation. In fact, of China are doing as well as you all seem to think, they have nothing to worry about with criticism or mockery since they can point at their record to disprove it.
Do you think China proving its accomplishments will make the CIA leave? Will building another hospital make the Falun Gong stop accepting money from foreign intelligence? Is this simply a question of winning hearts or is this a country trying to defend itself?
Does a country benefit from having a free press that makes shit up and acts as a vector for hostile foreign governments?
Because you just now framed it as me framing it as one? I'm just pointing out that the right to criticize is A) sometying they have in China and B) Not actually a useful tool for making change on it's own. We can complain all we want here about how our kids are hungry, but start actually feeding them, start taking real action and improving the lives of the impoverished, and the feds will straight up kill you like they did Hampton. In America, our "right to free speech" is a consolation prize for living in a giant human blender, and we are raised to think that the right to complain ineffectually about the blender is just as good as not living in one.
Well, that shit is allowed in the West and the West is garbage. Maybe living in an actual decentralized democratic country where you have actual influence is more important than being allowed to make memes?
There is a reason that Western leaders don't give a shit, and it's that they know any criticism or parody of them has no influence whatsoever.
Literally only a year since public outcry over Boris Johnsons behaviour saw him ousted as PM, then Liz Truss after him.
Leaders doing a good job don't feat parody as they can point at their record to disprove it, if China is a brilliant as you say, why can't they do similar?
Liz Truss replacing Boris Johnson is like replacing cyanide with arsenic. It's hardly anything to point to as an accomplishment.
And no matter how many accomplishments the CPC and Xi Jingping have, it seems like they're still under threat of external aggression and foreign misinformation campaigns. The ban on misinformation is a tactic to fight internal sabotage as much as it is a fight against the USA and Europe. Imperialist countries have been drooling for a way to instigate revolt in China for decades now and I'm gonna try to understand why they take such tactics.
Well I'm not Chinese, so I'm not gonna tell them how to run their country, but I can understand how widespread of a problem misinformation can be.
Personally as a desperate American if I had even a sliver of what people in China have, the better urban planning, the robust train system, the widespread home ownership, 40 years of rising wages, better healthcare system, etc. If I had all of that I'd agree to never speak again.
So you're asking the wrong person, I've got deeper priorities than what kind of jokes I'm allowed to make. A dozen members of my family died of covid, and in China they arrested people for nonsense conspiracy theories about covid, the same kind of misinformation that killed my family. That's where I'm coming from here..
I don't think freedom of speech and good public services need to be a binary. Many Scandinavian countries manage to have both.
In terms of misinformation, the answer isn't to ban speech, it's to have a better educated population who can recognise and not get fooled so easily. For what it's worth, we had people spreading Covid misinformation in the UK, I didn't lose one family or friend to it, so maybe the issue isn't the information itself?
Perhaps your individual situation is different? I'm American and also lost zero family members, though it fucked some of us up.
But I think it's a liberal brainworm to think protecting misinformation is important. It's a misunderstanding of how ideology works to think that simply being better-educated will solve the issue.
Yea America has pretty well proven that if you let people "do their own research" the majority of them are just going to believe bullshit that allows them to live their lives without confronting the consequences of their actions.
A bunch of people want to keep going out and getting their treats so they sought out information that confirmed their belief that they can do whatever they want and that makes them a good American and a free thinker.
Then a million people died
Thank God we have the freedom for half our country to refuse to wear a piece of cloth that could have saved people lives.
Clearly academic education doesn't mean common sense. Like I say, that misinformation was available in other countries, but people weren't doing it. Maybe it's a US issue rather than a misinformation issue?
The US has it particularly bad but no it's not just a US issue. It was an issue all over Europe too, I know plenty of people believing in nonsense related to Covid, educated people too. Look at how Austrians reacted when the government mandated vaccines.
Also what the fuck does "common sense" even mean? Clearly it's not that common, or there are competing "common senses". I'd rather have mine state-enforced because mine doesn't involve people dying of an easily preventable disease.
The "Xi got butthurt and banned all of Winnie the Pooh in China" thing is mind numbingly easy to disprove. Just search the phrase on literally any Chinese internet service. If they still spout that claim, they've obviously not done even one minute of research or fact checking and are so clearly just blindly regurgitating propaganda (which they also accuse people who support China of doing, funny how that works) that all of their opinions on China can be safely ignored.
You know what I did when I first heard that claim? I went straight to Baidu and searched up Winnie the Pooh, in English even, and surprise surprise it returned results like any other search engine. And this was when I was still a liberal who didn't like China.
for background info, the chinese government does not ban the actual associate of winnie pooh to xin unless it is used to promote racism contrary to the claim by the red fascist tankiejerkers, liberal sloganists, and the NATO-backed hong kong rioters by young students who never know about the period before the return of hong kong to chinese rule. The liberal sloganists justify the racist act on the claim that it is directed towards an oppressive dictator, but they cannot explain why they attack a 'tyrant' for their chinese ethnicity and appearance instead of their morality. For more suspicions, the winnie pooh association of Xi Ping in chinese hate crime propaganda are from people who contradict their hong kong independence slogan with return to british colonial rule and who believe that british immigrants are the only true 'hong kongers'.
These colonial worshipping kids have been kneeling so long that they've forgotten how to stand.
Their beloved 'prime minister' Churchill has quotes that wouldn't feel out of place in Hitler's collection:
The last one still rings true with the "just the government not the people" libs nowadays.
The last one is utterly jaw-dropping, not necessarily because I'm surprised Churchill said it, but how this sentiment has hardly suffered a dent in the contemporary "western" zeitgeist.
Replace a few words, trade "Aryan" for "European", "civilized" for "developed", and "barbaric" for "authoritarian"... boom, you've got a chart-topping WaPo OpEd.
it's also pure 100% undiluted projection.
the west is the one that's done all that and keeps doing it.
All i could think of reading that section was
Reminds me of how white Americans say they "don't want to be a minority in their own country." It's guilty projection. They just assume anyone in their position would act as beastly as they have.
that is very interesting, the though that they internalized that though so much thay they are afraid other people are like then.
i saw a person saying once that most west science fiction is about alien invasion, beings from far away with technology beyond our comprehension to massacre us to steal our resources, they project themselves into their stories, the colonizing monster.
while soviet scifi the aliens are communists, they surpassed many contradictions from their society, them they go roaming the universe help other races in surpassing those contradictions.
Yep. The guilt is buried deep but it festers and finds its way back to the surface.
good to find a like minded person, i was just thinking something like that, that democracy x authoritarian is just rebranded colonial thinking, you paint a target in a country to justify intervening in it
After some scrathing you can also quite often hear the three previous too, maybe except the pigtails part.
It's the same as those homophobic memes of Putin in makeup or kissing Trump, "bigotry is fine if it's used against someone I don't like"
Exactly. Sometimes people will defend it with some supposed high-minded origin, like "it's not saying being gay is wrong, it's using trump's homophobia and insecurity against him and turning it into a vulnerability that we're using to trigger him". And maybe some of the people repeating it actually believe that, but the images don't come with a paragraph explaining the nuance. They're just supposed to be an easy shot at trump, you're supposed to laugh and keep scrolling. Most people liking or sharing them aren't thinking about it any more than "haha, he's owned cause he's gay".
You can spend all day convincing yourself that your specific way of thinking about it isn't racist/homophobic, but when you share this shit online all that stuff stays in your head, and you're just spreading bigotry.
Yeah, and even if they genuinely believe it, the message is still "gay = bad". They are either telling on their internalized bigotry or willfully ignoring the hurt it causes to the actual victims of that bigotry
And the same libs are the first to cry "reverse racism" when they hear even the slightest criticism of whiteness
It really falls apart any way you look at it, but some of them seem to believe they’re the one person who is immune to propaganda and has complete control over their biases and associations. Like, okay even if that’s true, what happens now that you shared it with people that aren’t as big-brained as you.
also depicting Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh isn't banned in China because it personally offended him and he's like a petty tyrant king. It's because misrepresenting the government is illegal and they take that seriously. Maybe from my stupid western perspective it's going a little too far, but also China wouldn't tolerate something like a Qanon movement, or orther wild ass conspiracy theories, so at least they have that going on.
How is a meme "misrepresenting the government" is someone going to look at the picture and think "yes, that's clearly literal, China is run by a anthropomorphic teddy bear from literature".
it's a blanket ban on anything that could be considered defamation or caricature of government officials. Like I said I actually think it's going too far, but I get the idea. It's to stop conspiracy theories and wild rumors before they start. Like I don't know, a person doesn't have to believe it's literal. A confused person could come to any weird conclusions like that Xi Jinping works for Disney or that he played Winnie the Pooh in a movie. I don't know the exact argument but it otherwise tracks with the ban on misrepresentation. Take it up with the Chinese state, not me, but it seems like something very minor to even care about. "I can't call the president a cartoon bear" yeah ok do something else with your time then, who gives a shit
You don't think not being able to mock and joke about your countries leadership is an issue?
Jester's privilege isn't something I can eat or sleep inside
Why does it have to be a binary? It's possible to have freedom of speech and a well run nation. In fact, of China are doing as well as you all seem to think, they have nothing to worry about with criticism or mockery since they can point at their record to disprove it.
Do you think China proving its accomplishments will make the CIA leave? Will building another hospital make the Falun Gong stop accepting money from foreign intelligence? Is this simply a question of winning hearts or is this a country trying to defend itself?
Does a country benefit from having a free press that makes shit up and acts as a vector for hostile foreign governments?
Because you just now framed it as me framing it as one? I'm just pointing out that the right to criticize is A) sometying they have in China and B) Not actually a useful tool for making change on it's own. We can complain all we want here about how our kids are hungry, but start actually feeding them, start taking real action and improving the lives of the impoverished, and the feds will straight up kill you like they did Hampton. In America, our "right to free speech" is a consolation prize for living in a giant human blender, and we are raised to think that the right to complain ineffectually about the blender is just as good as not living in one.
Well, that shit is allowed in the West and the West is garbage. Maybe living in an actual decentralized democratic country where you have actual influence is more important than being allowed to make memes?
There is a reason that Western leaders don't give a shit, and it's that they know any criticism or parody of them has no influence whatsoever.
Literally only a year since public outcry over Boris Johnsons behaviour saw him ousted as PM, then Liz Truss after him.
Leaders doing a good job don't feat parody as they can point at their record to disprove it, if China is a brilliant as you say, why can't they do similar?
Liz Truss replacing Boris Johnson is like replacing cyanide with arsenic. It's hardly anything to point to as an accomplishment.
And no matter how many accomplishments the CPC and Xi Jingping have, it seems like they're still under threat of external aggression and foreign misinformation campaigns. The ban on misinformation is a tactic to fight internal sabotage as much as it is a fight against the USA and Europe. Imperialist countries have been drooling for a way to instigate revolt in China for decades now and I'm gonna try to understand why they take such tactics.
Well I'm not Chinese, so I'm not gonna tell them how to run their country, but I can understand how widespread of a problem misinformation can be.
Personally as a desperate American if I had even a sliver of what people in China have, the better urban planning, the robust train system, the widespread home ownership, 40 years of rising wages, better healthcare system, etc. If I had all of that I'd agree to never speak again.
So you're asking the wrong person, I've got deeper priorities than what kind of jokes I'm allowed to make. A dozen members of my family died of covid, and in China they arrested people for nonsense conspiracy theories about covid, the same kind of misinformation that killed my family. That's where I'm coming from here..
I don't think freedom of speech and good public services need to be a binary. Many Scandinavian countries manage to have both.
In terms of misinformation, the answer isn't to ban speech, it's to have a better educated population who can recognise and not get fooled so easily. For what it's worth, we had people spreading Covid misinformation in the UK, I didn't lose one family or friend to it, so maybe the issue isn't the information itself?
Perhaps your individual situation is different? I'm American and also lost zero family members, though it fucked some of us up.
But I think it's a liberal brainworm to think protecting misinformation is important. It's a misunderstanding of how ideology works to think that simply being better-educated will solve the issue.
Yea America has pretty well proven that if you let people "do their own research" the majority of them are just going to believe bullshit that allows them to live their lives without confronting the consequences of their actions.
A bunch of people want to keep going out and getting their treats so they sought out information that confirmed their belief that they can do whatever they want and that makes them a good American and a free thinker.
Then a million people died
Thank God we have the freedom for half our country to refuse to wear a piece of cloth that could have saved people lives.
Unsure how better education will keep my relatives from consuming horse dewormer to prevent covid.
These people have university degrees. Post graduates even.
Do they need another ten years of schooling? Or do we need to stop the misinformation by force?
Clearly academic education doesn't mean common sense. Like I say, that misinformation was available in other countries, but people weren't doing it. Maybe it's a US issue rather than a misinformation issue?
The US has it particularly bad but no it's not just a US issue. It was an issue all over Europe too, I know plenty of people believing in nonsense related to Covid, educated people too. Look at how Austrians reacted when the government mandated vaccines.
Also what the fuck does "common sense" even mean? Clearly it's not that common, or there are competing "common senses". I'd rather have mine state-enforced because mine doesn't involve people dying of an easily preventable disease.
I think being able to give serious criticism based on concrete claims is incomparably more important and that actually is allowed
The "Xi got butthurt and banned all of Winnie the Pooh in China" thing is mind numbingly easy to disprove. Just search the phrase on literally any Chinese internet service. If they still spout that claim, they've obviously not done even one minute of research or fact checking and are so clearly just blindly regurgitating propaganda (which they also accuse people who support China of doing, funny how that works) that all of their opinions on China can be safely ignored.
You know what I did when I first heard that claim? I went straight to Baidu and searched up Winnie the Pooh, in English even, and surprise surprise it returned results like any other search engine. And this was when I was still a liberal who didn't like China.
Endless projection
https://i.imgur.com/GfHmRsC.png
An Imgur link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same location on alternative frontends that protect your privacy.