John Bolton was one of the dumbest people in government that I’ve had the “pleasure” to work with. A sullen, dull and quiet guy, he added nothing to National Security except, “Gee, let’s go to war.” Also, illegally released much Classified Information. A real dope!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 15, 2020
yeah completely fucked, no argument here, but that shit was fourth branch guided without a doubt in my mind and trump only ever expressed desire to end military expansion.
Trump talks from both sides of his mouth. He's also dropped the "mother of all bombs", threatened to go after terrorists families, okay'ed the Venezuela coup attempt, regardless of it being driven by the hard neocons like Bolton. He will simultaneously say he'll end military expansion, while still engaging in it, such as the bombings in Yemen
dude the numbers don't lie, thousands less civilians died under trump than obama. like many, many thousands.
trump is a piece of shit, no doubt, but a war monger he is not. he actively opposed it. the articles on the subject are begging to label him a "war president", but the defense department annually releases civilian casualties and trump's max count is about 13,000 after four years. one is too many, but 13,000 is less than the hundreds of thousands that die under previous administrations every time.
My article is countering your assertion that acthually he's not an imperialist. Bringing up Obama is pointless since he was also an imperialist.
From the article:
As soon as Trump came into office, civilian deaths in the conflict soared. Under his presidency, the U.S.-led coalition air and artillery campaign in Iraq and Syria against the terrorist group killed up to 13,000 civilians
but the defense department annually releases civilian casualties and trump’s max count is about 13,000 after four years. one is too many, but 13,000 is less than the hundreds of thousands that die under previous administrations every time.
that was his whole presidency.
we're comparing this to the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in previous administrations
edit: to simplify, when your kill count is only at 10% of the previous guys, the military industrial complex isn't going to get behind you as their guy.
No you're comparing this. I'm saying he's an imperialist like the rest of them. Also my article debunks that 13,000 number since it states 13k civilians died from US campaign in Syria and Iraq alone under Trump. It doesn't even include the civilians that died in Yemen.
And his whole presidency was just 1 term, what are you talking about
Stop being an apologist for Trump. Just because Obama was an imperialist, it does not mean that Trump wasn't. Killing tens of thousands of civilians in just 4 years with coup attempt in Venezuela, supporting the coup in Bolivia, to bombing a top Iranian official, etc. It all makes him an imperialist. I'm also not sure where you're getting the 10% number or how your tallying civilians killed under Obama. But bringing up Obama is a complete non sequitur on your assertion that Trump is in some ways not an imperialist
his death count is lower than his predecessor and he's pulled troops out consistently. the definition of expanding upon imperialism would be literally doing the direct opposite of what he did.
Obama death count was lower than his predecessor and he also pulled out troops, that doesn't make Obama not an imperialist. The definition of imperialist would definitely encompass two coups in Latin America and bombing civilians in Iraq, Syria, and Yemen. His death count is lower but he's only served four years, he could have easily matched Obama's numbers had he been given 4 more years. You still haven't given me a source for Obama's death toll, which I'll remind you is still irrelevant to the argument
obama didn’t pull troops out, he put troops in and bombed more. ten times more strikes than bush
Those were drone strikes. Do you know the difference between drone strikes and ground troops? Obama withdrew troops from Iraq. This is common knowledge. What does any of this have to do with total civilian deaths which Bush had way more of, or the fact that Trump is also an imperialist?
You still have not given me a total obama civilian death count
Obama being an imperialist does not negate Trump being an imperialist. You seen to keep ignoring this too
the argument is that trump did not expand upon imperialism, which i've demonstrated. being not as expansive as your predecessor does show that you are literally not expanding upon imperialism, which was the original argument back in the first post. you seem to keep ignoring this.
i just showed you that obama didn’t pull troops out, he moved into Afghanista
But by the end of his administration there less troops in Afghanistan and Iraq than when he got into office. This is irrelevant because Obama is still an imperialist.
Same policy under Trump. How can you say trumps death count is 10% of Obama's if you don't even know Obama's death count?
His administration literally backed two coups in Latin America, one was actually successful, and the war in Yemen expanded. What are you talking about dude?
you don't get points for adding in a bunch of troops and then pulling them out, and then claiming that every male killed was a terrorist because you can't prove they weren't.
yes, he did, and absolutely that is fucked. most of the blame there is the CIA though, and that's fourth branch style shit. the entire time trump has been decreasing military expansion, and if he hadn't he'd be getting another term. they don't want someone who isn't going to expand. expect peace talks in Afghanistan to fall through as soon as biden takes the helm.
No one is defending Obama. I've consistently stated in every comment of mine that he's imperialist. You only brought him up as a strawman. Your argument is that Trump isn't an expansionist, when I've shown you that he's expanded drone strikes, more drone strikes in 2 years than Obama in 8. He's expanded the war in Yemen. His administration backed two coups in Latin America, and lastly he's expanded the military budget substantially. So you can bring Obama up all you want, but Obama being an imperialist does not negate Trump also being an imperialist and expanding its power
if trump was expanding he wouldn't have faced any resistance waltzing into a second term. why'd he fire bolton? because he was the guy telling him to expand upon imperialism.
i think you've been on reddit too long if you have to label valid arguments as 'strawmen.' relativity is a valid thing to bring up in any argument.
he has not expanded the military budget substantially, it's been around 700 billion annually for almost as long as i can remember.
as s tated, there's plenty of valid reasons to hate trump that you don't have to make shit up. he is the least war hungry president we've had in like 50 years, and probably will be for another 50. if he wasn't, he'd still be in office.
President Donald Trump has revoked a policy set by his predecessor requiring US intelligence officials to publish the number of civilians killed in drone strikes outside of war zones.
There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank.
Now will you stop acting like Trump is not an imperialist or are you going to keep acting like the chuds who think he's anti establishment?
yeah completely fucked, no argument here, but that shit was fourth branch guided without a doubt in my mind and trump only ever expressed desire to end military expansion.
There seemed to be some kind of lowkey deal with Lindsey Graham. Fat lot of good that helped.
Trump talks from both sides of his mouth. He's also dropped the "mother of all bombs", threatened to go after terrorists families, okay'ed the Venezuela coup attempt, regardless of it being driven by the hard neocons like Bolton. He will simultaneously say he'll end military expansion, while still engaging in it, such as the bombings in Yemen
dude the numbers don't lie, thousands less civilians died under trump than obama. like many, many thousands.
trump is a piece of shit, no doubt, but a war monger he is not. he actively opposed it. the articles on the subject are begging to label him a "war president", but the defense department annually releases civilian casualties and trump's max count is about 13,000 after four years. one is too many, but 13,000 is less than the hundreds of thousands that die under previous administrations every time.
Who the fuck mentioned Obama? Your suggesting Trump is against war which is as dumb as chuds thinking he's anti establishment
https://theintercept.com/2020/10/29/trump-yemen-war-civilian-deaths/
i fucking mentioned obama. read your own fucking article, it's the direct article i sourced my information from. he is indeed against war. "According to estimates provided by the report, at least 86 civilians were killed in airstrikes and raids carried out in Yemen on Trump’s watch. "86 is fucked, but pretending that he's anywhere near the monster obama was when it came to civilian casualties is fucking stupid.
My article is countering your assertion that acthually he's not an imperialist. Bringing up Obama is pointless since he was also an imperialist.
From the article:
Don't forget this was just one term
that was his whole presidency.
we're comparing this to the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in previous administrations
edit: to simplify, when your kill count is only at 10% of the previous guys, the military industrial complex isn't going to get behind you as their guy.
No you're comparing this. I'm saying he's an imperialist like the rest of them. Also my article debunks that 13,000 number since it states 13k civilians died from US campaign in Syria and Iraq alone under Trump. It doesn't even include the civilians that died in Yemen.
And his whole presidency was just 1 term, what are you talking about
Also what hundreds of thousands does under Obama?
Stop being an apologist for Trump. Just because Obama was an imperialist, it does not mean that Trump wasn't. Killing tens of thousands of civilians in just 4 years with coup attempt in Venezuela, supporting the coup in Bolivia, to bombing a top Iranian official, etc. It all makes him an imperialist. I'm also not sure where you're getting the 10% number or how your tallying civilians killed under Obama. But bringing up Obama is a complete non sequitur on your assertion that Trump is in some ways not an imperialist
his death count is lower than his predecessor and he's pulled troops out consistently. the definition of expanding upon imperialism would be literally doing the direct opposite of what he did.
Obama death count was lower than his predecessor and he also pulled out troops, that doesn't make Obama not an imperialist. The definition of imperialist would definitely encompass two coups in Latin America and bombing civilians in Iraq, Syria, and Yemen. His death count is lower but he's only served four years, he could have easily matched Obama's numbers had he been given 4 more years. You still haven't given me a source for Obama's death toll, which I'll remind you is still irrelevant to the argument
obama didn't pull troops out, he put troops in and bombed more. ten times more strikes than bush
In his first few years in office, Obama dramatically ramped up the U.S. presence in Afghanistan, from a little over 30,000 to more than 100,000 troops at the peak in 2011.
there's tons of reasons to hate trump, but most are his domestic policy, not his foreign policy.
Those were drone strikes. Do you know the difference between drone strikes and ground troops? Obama withdrew troops from Iraq. This is common knowledge. What does any of this have to do with total civilian deaths which Bush had way more of, or the fact that Trump is also an imperialist?
You still have not given me a total obama civilian death count
Obama being an imperialist does not negate Trump being an imperialist. You seen to keep ignoring this too
i just showed you that obama didn't pull troops out, he moved into Afghanistan.
But by the end of his administration there less troops in Afghanistan and Iraq than when he got into office. This is irrelevant because Obama is still an imperialist.
Same policy under Trump. How can you say trumps death count is 10% of Obama's if you don't even know Obama's death count?
His administration literally backed two coups in Latin America, one was actually successful, and the war in Yemen expanded. What are you talking about dude?
you don't get points for adding in a bunch of troops and then pulling them out, and then claiming that every male killed was a terrorist because you can't prove they weren't.
current estimates are at 160,000 in afghanistan, showing over a 50% drop in casualties under trump, assuming that trump continued obama's policy of just counting every dead male as a combatant as you suggest
No one is defending Obama. I've consistently stated in every comment of mine that he's imperialist. You only brought him up as a strawman. Your argument is that Trump isn't an expansionist, when I've shown you that he's expanded drone strikes, more drone strikes in 2 years than Obama in 8. He's expanded the war in Yemen. His administration backed two coups in Latin America, and lastly he's expanded the military budget substantially. So you can bring Obama up all you want, but Obama being an imperialist does not negate Trump also being an imperialist and expanding its power
if trump was expanding he wouldn't have faced any resistance waltzing into a second term. why'd he fire bolton? because he was the guy telling him to expand upon imperialism.
i think you've been on reddit too long if you have to label valid arguments as 'strawmen.' relativity is a valid thing to bring up in any argument.
he has not expanded the military budget substantially, it's been around 700 billion annually for almost as long as i can remember.
as s tated, there's plenty of valid reasons to hate trump that you don't have to make shit up. he is the least war hungry president we've had in like 50 years, and probably will be for another 50. if he wasn't, he'd still be in office.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
From the article:
Now will you stop acting like Trump is not an imperialist or are you going to keep acting like the chuds who think he's anti establishment?
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