I just realized, we really have to be prepared to accidentally talk to weird CIA people because they are going to be talking to us and like you said, try and divide us.
There definitely are folks online, and in a more limited fashion in person, which seek to sabotage leftists groups/movements.
Look at the ops they did back in the 50-70s under COINTELPRO, infiltrating groups and starting rumors about prominent members, intimidating and blackmailing, proposing actions that would harm groups public image in order to stifle membership.
I mean if you read them, you can tell they're still using the same tactics today.
People definitely need to do a better job of mitigating this, I think.
A lot of points here is why I think bigger left-ish groups like the DSA need to move towards greater centralism.
Let the local chapters come up with programs for local issues, but anything national comes down from a national committee. I realize this is basically how it works today, but the delegates are based on chapter membership (1 for every 4-5 members/chapter), not something like 1-2 delegates per chapter.
A big chapter can be infiltrated and have outsized influence on the results of the convention.
It's way too easy for people to just come up with random resolutions and ideas that may already have an outlet for action and just jam up the whole process. This kind of happened at DSA2019 NC
I am fairly convinced I saw this in action during the Occupy movement.. I 95% sure the cops were paying homeless people to do most of the things on your list. It sucks because they're homeless and nobody really pushed back.. but it was every day and fairly obvious.
The DSA needs centralism, but with its current member/leadership, greater centralism will make them turn into yet another weak "progressive" group like MoveOn.org or something
The problem is that there's also a lot of prominent "Leftists" who might not be in the CIA, but are also very much not down for the cause. I'm sorry, but anyone who has mingled in elite circles needs to be treated with suspicion as a matter of fact. It's piss-easy to infiltrate the Left as some sort of non-profit career ghoul by consuming the right media and parroting some memes.
During the latest BLM protests multiple different people in my city alone (all of whom were somewhat respected young black folks themselves) were paid by the city to redirect protestors away from the core area and stop them from fucking with a police precinct. This shit is proven not remote speculation as documents have been leaked.
This was being done by local departments, not anything higher level than that. "Counter insurgency" as it relates to left wing infiltration happens not just from the government but also from private organizations themselves.
The point is, if it remotely looks like an op, it's better to just assume that it is one, because those folks are at best just useful idiots being manipulated by an actual operation.
I just realized, we really have to be prepared to accidentally talk to weird CIA people because they are going to be talking to us and like you said, try and divide us.
There definitely are folks online, and in a more limited fashion in person, which seek to sabotage leftists groups/movements.
Look at the ops they did back in the 50-70s under COINTELPRO, infiltrating groups and starting rumors about prominent members, intimidating and blackmailing, proposing actions that would harm groups public image in order to stifle membership.
I mean if you read them, you can tell they're still using the same tactics today.
People definitely need to do a better job of mitigating this, I think.
Problem is everyone believes the group they disagree with are COINTEPRO.
deleted by creator
A lot of points here is why I think bigger left-ish groups like the DSA need to move towards greater centralism.
Let the local chapters come up with programs for local issues, but anything national comes down from a national committee. I realize this is basically how it works today, but the delegates are based on chapter membership (1 for every 4-5 members/chapter), not something like 1-2 delegates per chapter.
A big chapter can be infiltrated and have outsized influence on the results of the convention.
It's way too easy for people to just come up with random resolutions and ideas that may already have an outlet for action and just jam up the whole process. This kind of happened at DSA2019 NC
I am fairly convinced I saw this in action during the Occupy movement.. I 95% sure the cops were paying homeless people to do most of the things on your list. It sucks because they're homeless and nobody really pushed back.. but it was every day and fairly obvious.
The DSA needs centralism, but with its current member/leadership, greater centralism will make them turn into yet another weak "progressive" group like MoveOn.org or something
It's on the Marxist caucuses to educate their branch in conjunction with pushing for centralism
Now I'm sincerely concerned about being called a fed for being wordy even though thats just because of my autism.
deleted by creator
The problem is that there's also a lot of prominent "Leftists" who might not be in the CIA, but are also very much not down for the cause. I'm sorry, but anyone who has mingled in elite circles needs to be treated with suspicion as a matter of fact. It's piss-easy to infiltrate the Left as some sort of non-profit career ghoul by consuming the right media and parroting some memes.
During the latest BLM protests multiple different people in my city alone (all of whom were somewhat respected young black folks themselves) were paid by the city to redirect protestors away from the core area and stop them from fucking with a police precinct. This shit is proven not remote speculation as documents have been leaked.
This was being done by local departments, not anything higher level than that. "Counter insurgency" as it relates to left wing infiltration happens not just from the government but also from private organizations themselves.
The point is, if it remotely looks like an op, it's better to just assume that it is one, because those folks are at best just useful idiots being manipulated by an actual operation.
link?
link if you can do it without doxxing yourself.
It's Seattle, look up Raz Simone and Andre Taylor.