Yeah that's actually a big problem with the GNU/Linux argument. It's totally possible to run an open source, hackable, Unix system with the Linux kernel and absolutely no GNU software. You can compile the kernel with clang (might be experimental tho), you can use musl for stdlib, there are a few different reimplementations of the standard utils, and you can pick one of a dozen or more shells. Alpine does this easily.
People love to complain about them, but I think the Red Hat software projects like systemd, kvm, and pipewire are more important than the GNU ones. Maybe we should call it Red Hat/Linux
I just suppose that I don’t see the point in being so pedantic about including the name of one of many different components of the free software stack which can be used to make up a Linux-based operating system. I think most everybody thinks of the family of FOSS based operating systems when they hear Linux, and derivative projects like android are usually considered their own separate thing.
The FSF is pretty well known by those who are familiar with Linux, and while they have made huge contributions to FLOSS there are some pretty nasty reactionary ideas that RMS specifically pushes that lead to plenty of us preferring not to directly associate, at least with him specifically.
SA TRIGGER WARNING
just look up what stallman has to say on age of consent laws and rape, specifically regarding Epstein and trafficked teenagers. He’s fucking gross.
I mean it took the man almost 15 years to renounce his statements on “consensual pedophilia” only to then make statements about how girls trafficked by Epstein “might not have been raped.” It’s quite a concerning pattern to just ignore
Really the whole GNU/Linux stallman copypasta is because Stallman felt like he wasn't getting enough credit for the Linux phenomena, back in the early aughts. It was Linux this, Linux that, and the userland (which is provided by GNU) didn't get enough credit, in his mind. Which, fair point. But, the problem is that Stallman fell flat on his face when it came to communicating how GNU provided a lot of value and how it would be nice to get more attribution. It comes off as pedantic and sour grapes.
As others have pointed out, there are other userlands out there (busybox, etc) and other C libraries that can be basis of an operating system. But, I still think Stallman should get a lot of credit for the work he did in the 80's and 90s, advocating for the idea of Free Software. It was revolutionary and changed the world.
This is true, but remember that GNU pre-dates busybox by a lot. First releases of GNU userland and utilities was like 1985 and Busybox was what, 1999? GCC was the de-facto FOSS compiler until LLVM was developed in the mid aughts.
What about busybox/linux distros like alpine? That’s still FOSS without any GNU coreutils and the option to compile on clang and use musl
Yeah that's actually a big problem with the GNU/Linux argument. It's totally possible to run an open source, hackable, Unix system with the Linux kernel and absolutely no GNU software. You can compile the kernel with clang (might be experimental tho), you can use musl for stdlib, there are a few different reimplementations of the standard utils, and you can pick one of a dozen or more shells. Alpine does this easily.
People love to complain about them, but I think the Red Hat software projects like systemd, kvm, and pipewire are more important than the GNU ones. Maybe we should call it Red Hat/Linux
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I just suppose that I don’t see the point in being so pedantic about including the name of one of many different components of the free software stack which can be used to make up a Linux-based operating system. I think most everybody thinks of the family of FOSS based operating systems when they hear Linux, and derivative projects like android are usually considered their own separate thing. The FSF is pretty well known by those who are familiar with Linux, and while they have made huge contributions to FLOSS there are some pretty nasty reactionary ideas that RMS specifically pushes that lead to plenty of us preferring not to directly associate, at least with him specifically.
SA TRIGGER WARNING
just look up what stallman has to say on age of consent laws and rape, specifically regarding Epstein and trafficked teenagers. He’s fucking gross.
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I mean it took the man almost 15 years to renounce his statements on “consensual pedophilia” only to then make statements about how girls trafficked by Epstein “might not have been raped.” It’s quite a concerning pattern to just ignore
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deleted by creator
GNU Hurd gang, rise up
Really the whole GNU/Linux stallman copypasta is because Stallman felt like he wasn't getting enough credit for the Linux phenomena, back in the early aughts. It was Linux this, Linux that, and the userland (which is provided by GNU) didn't get enough credit, in his mind. Which, fair point. But, the problem is that Stallman fell flat on his face when it came to communicating how GNU provided a lot of value and how it would be nice to get more attribution. It comes off as pedantic and sour grapes.
As others have pointed out, there are other userlands out there (busybox, etc) and other C libraries that can be basis of an operating system. But, I still think Stallman should get a lot of credit for the work he did in the 80's and 90s, advocating for the idea of Free Software. It was revolutionary and changed the world.
But, we don't have to excuse bad behavior.
This is true, but remember that GNU pre-dates busybox by a lot. First releases of GNU userland and utilities was like 1985 and Busybox was what, 1999? GCC was the de-facto FOSS compiler until LLVM was developed in the mid aughts.