• anthm17 [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Wow you're very smart and situation is entirely hopeless and we should not try.

    Thank you very much for poinitng out yet again how awful things are.

    • TossedAccount [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Read my post again. I never said the situation was hopeless, just that we're not strong enough for a demand like "abolish the police" to be appropriate yet. We can progress from our current position to a better one very quickly in a short period of time, but in the meantime we have to continue laying and rebuilding the foundations that 19th-century Marxists built, and which the 20th-century left took for granted.

      That means joining and building Marxist organizations, building community coalitions, radicalizing friends and coworkers, getting involved in your union if you're in one (not to join union leadership but to coordinate with rank-and-file membership), continuing to intervene in social movements like BLM. This will help lay the foundation for a mass workers' party and for a revolutionary party capable of running working-class candidates in elections as a platform to raise a Marxist banner, and rally around issue-centric campaigns built around demands like defunding the police.

        • TossedAccount [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          For crying out loud. Things are not hopeless. Things might get harder (hell, covid has made turning people out to street protests harder) but that's not any reason to give up. If you're a socialist, you at least on an unconscious level are rejecting doomerism and the politics of despair. A better world is still possible even if conditions seem bleak right now and look like they're going to be horrifying for the foreseeable future. We can still organize. We can still reach our fellow workers. We can still fight back.

          Trotsky wrote a very short article about how awful and hopeless things seemed at the turn of the 20th century. (I know it's early Trotsky who should be taken with a grain of salt but this particular writing aged well). This was his concluding statement:

          It seems as if the new century, this gigantic newcomer, were bent at the very moment of its appearance to drive the optimist into absolute pessimism and civic nirvana.

          Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope! thunders the twentieth century in salvos of fire and in the rumbling of guns.

          Surrender, you pathetic dreamer. Here I am, your long awaited twentieth century, your ‘future.’

          No, replies the unhumbled optimist: You, you are only the present.

          • anthm17 [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            Their dream lies in ruins and he got murdered thousands of miles away from his home, by people who used to be his comrades.

            The century was a nothing but death and suffering and ended with the world humanity poised to finally kill itself via climate change. The people who did it are worshiped as heroes.

            • TossedAccount [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Even if what they built was mostly destroyed or distorted almost beyond recognition, there are still important lessons we can learn from the history of socialist movements. The Russian and Chinese revolutions were probably the most significant accomplishments of global Marxism (even if they can and should be ruthlessly analyzed and scrutinized for missteps, mistakes, and betrayals). These movements showed the world that it's even possible to establish a workers' state on a continental scale, and workers all over the world have attempted to replicate them. Lenin studied Marx's analysis of the failed 1871 Paris commune and applied those lessons in the Russian context. We can do the same with 20th century socialism as we push forward in our 21st century struggle.

              • anthm17 [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                I don't know, half the time on here it's just people literally telling us it's useless and we're just doomed to be shitty people by accident of birth. The other half is just people saying organize instead of vote.

                No one has any actual ideas about anything.

                • TossedAccount [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  No one has any actual ideas about anything.

                  This is false. I'm trying to put forward Marxist ideas, including many of the same ideas as my own organization (which I'm not gonna directly name-drop here, hello FBI). Other chapo users are attempting to put forth ideas, even if they're simply and crudely stated ones like "organize instead of vote". The organize part I can obviously get behind, but I tend to push back against pure electoral abstentionism when independent working-class candidates and potentially-useful ballot questions are on the table.

                  The online left (including chapo) isn't representative of the entire left either, there might be socialists trying to reach people like you both online and offline in or near your own community, especially if you live in a big city! At the very least there's probably some sort of DSA presence in a given large city, though DSA is a messy hodgepodge of liberals, Marxists, and anarchists and I would only consider working with them on non-electoral stuff, while not joining them.

                  • anthm17 [he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    New ideas. Nobody has any new ideas. It's just a mismash of failed fucking bullshit.