I don't know, half the time on here it's just people literally telling us it's useless and we're just doomed to be shitty people by accident of birth. The other half is just people saying organize instead of vote.
This is false. I'm trying to put forward Marxist ideas, including many of the same ideas as my own organization (which I'm not gonna directly name-drop here, hello FBI). Other chapo users are attempting to put forth ideas, even if they're simply and crudely stated ones like "organize instead of vote". The organize part I can obviously get behind, but I tend to push back against pure electoral abstentionism when independent working-class candidates and potentially-useful ballot questions are on the table.
The online left (including chapo) isn't representative of the entire left either, there might be socialists trying to reach people like you both online and offline in or near your own community, especially if you live in a big city! At the very least there's probably some sort of DSA presence in a given large city, though DSA is a messy hodgepodge of liberals, Marxists, and anarchists and I would only consider working with them on non-electoral stuff, while not joining them.
Marxism is a methodology we use to understand the world as social and material conditions change. I'm not sure what would satisfy your criteria for "new ideas" but under novel conditions Marxists will sometimes reach new conclusions in response to those conditions (whether they're always correct is a different question). Even if the history of socialism features a lot of failure, there are occasional successes or partial successes that we can learn from. Every new movement gives us more empirical data to analyze, to put both old and new ideas to the test.
Maybe it's not helpful for me to talk to you right now. I'm trying to offer you the slightest bit of genuine hope - or at the very least some of the tools to actually figure out how to get even against the capitalist bastards who are wrecking the world - but you're clearly not absorbing most of what I've said. That's okay, I've had moments like these in the past too. You might want to go log off for a while and get some rest. Once you're ready, I highly recommend seeking out local leftists in your community that you can talk to and organize with in person (or even just on zoom). Talking only to randos online about socialism isn't good for anyone.
I'm a useless person who can't talk to people in real life.
edit: I've been in a horrible state since I woke up. :/
but you’re clearly not absorbing most of what I’ve said
No I'm just putting in low effort attacks without backing them up with any actual arguments.
The core problem is that the "organize" methodology is failed. They broke the unions. They have a massive propaganda machine. They use massive violence and just refuse to budge.
The left has no new ideas to combat that. Not on any level.
I don't know how to make you feel better but you may want to get some rest, maybe log off for a while, and come back to this thread at a later time when you're feeling better.
Anything they broke, we can rebuild, even if it takes decades. Maybe we can rebuild the unions and our parties differently this time, and find ways to make them harder to break.
We can counter their massive propaganda machine by building our own propaganda machine. This is why Marxist organizations publish articles on their websites! This is why some orgs still sell newspapers, even at a loss! This is why they put up leaflets and invite people to public meetings! This is why parties now establish a social media presence!
Even when dealing with explicit state violence, there are usually ways to respond and adapt in self-defense. Portland protestors responded to tear gas by bringing leaf blowers to blow the gas away and started wearing gas masks, just to give a novel example.
We know what the obstacles are, and proactively take measures to overcome them, or to figure out what the best measures are.
He had more than any of us could dream of, and it took nothing.
Newspapers? They have a trillion dollars so in media enterprises.
Portland protestors responded to tear gas by bringing leaf blowers to blow the gas away and started wearing gas masks, just to give a novel example.
and in response the feds deployed their own blowers and the violence only intensified.
Ted Wheeler managed to win because a bunch of idiots just couldn't bear to vote for the alternative, so they split the vote. They went out of their way to do it. Why? Icky socialism and opportunistic idpol.
80% of portland wants an oversight board? Good luck with that, courts aren't going to let you do that. Contracts > Democracy, obviously. Just like they wouldn't let Seattle regulate the cops.
I mean honest to god the left in this country is so fucked that the state is about legalize murder and we have no response besides whining. It's hopeless. The only thing that will change anything is massive violence and societal collapse. That will only lead to worse places.
It only has to happen once to break the spine of capital. It's extremely difficult to take things away from people that improve their lives. Once people are shown an alternative, it's over for capitalism. They have to win every battle. We have to win once.
Yes it's depressing right now, but this thing is just starting. Quality of life is dropping so precipitously that the clashes are inevitable - when those clashes occur you'll be out in the streets, same with me. Will those lead to anything? Maybe not, but what's the alternative? None of us can predict the future. Every coup is a long shot until it actually happens, and that comes from the coup masters the CIA.
Class consciousness is awakening. The imperial core is dying and neither political party has any solution.
They don't need to win every time because once they lose they will just start killing and not stop until it doesn't matter that we won.
Turn on chapo and hear them gloating about the lack of a coup and essentially saying anyone concerned at any point is a fool. Look at the right, it's people who have no use for democracy anymore and want the killing to start.
I don't know, half the time on here it's just people literally telling us it's useless and we're just doomed to be shitty people by accident of birth. The other half is just people saying organize instead of vote.
No one has any actual ideas about anything.
This is false. I'm trying to put forward Marxist ideas, including many of the same ideas as my own organization (which I'm not gonna directly name-drop here, hello FBI). Other chapo users are attempting to put forth ideas, even if they're simply and crudely stated ones like "organize instead of vote". The organize part I can obviously get behind, but I tend to push back against pure electoral abstentionism when independent working-class candidates and potentially-useful ballot questions are on the table.
The online left (including chapo) isn't representative of the entire left either, there might be socialists trying to reach people like you both online and offline in or near your own community, especially if you live in a big city! At the very least there's probably some sort of DSA presence in a given large city, though DSA is a messy hodgepodge of liberals, Marxists, and anarchists and I would only consider working with them on non-electoral stuff, while not joining them.
New ideas. Nobody has any new ideas. It's just a mismash of failed fucking bullshit.
Marxism is a methodology we use to understand the world as social and material conditions change. I'm not sure what would satisfy your criteria for "new ideas" but under novel conditions Marxists will sometimes reach new conclusions in response to those conditions (whether they're always correct is a different question). Even if the history of socialism features a lot of failure, there are occasional successes or partial successes that we can learn from. Every new movement gives us more empirical data to analyze, to put both old and new ideas to the test.
Gee, maybe that's why the left is dead.
Maybe it's not helpful for me to talk to you right now. I'm trying to offer you the slightest bit of genuine hope - or at the very least some of the tools to actually figure out how to get even against the capitalist bastards who are wrecking the world - but you're clearly not absorbing most of what I've said. That's okay, I've had moments like these in the past too. You might want to go log off for a while and get some rest. Once you're ready, I highly recommend seeking out local leftists in your community that you can talk to and organize with in person (or even just on zoom). Talking only to randos online about socialism isn't good for anyone.
I'm a useless person who can't talk to people in real life.
edit: I've been in a horrible state since I woke up. :/
No I'm just putting in low effort attacks without backing them up with any actual arguments.
The core problem is that the "organize" methodology is failed. They broke the unions. They have a massive propaganda machine. They use massive violence and just refuse to budge.
The left has no new ideas to combat that. Not on any level.
I don't know how to make you feel better but you may want to get some rest, maybe log off for a while, and come back to this thread at a later time when you're feeling better.
There is nothing to do if I log off.
Anything they broke, we can rebuild, even if it takes decades. Maybe we can rebuild the unions and our parties differently this time, and find ways to make them harder to break.
We can counter their massive propaganda machine by building our own propaganda machine. This is why Marxist organizations publish articles on their websites! This is why some orgs still sell newspapers, even at a loss! This is why they put up leaflets and invite people to public meetings! This is why parties now establish a social media presence!
Even when dealing with explicit state violence, there are usually ways to respond and adapt in self-defense. Portland protestors responded to tear gas by bringing leaf blowers to blow the gas away and started wearing gas masks, just to give a novel example.
We know what the obstacles are, and proactively take measures to overcome them, or to figure out what the best measures are.
They crushed Bernie effortlessly. Effortlessly.
He had more than any of us could dream of, and it took nothing.
Newspapers? They have a trillion dollars so in media enterprises.
and in response the feds deployed their own blowers and the violence only intensified.
Ted Wheeler managed to win because a bunch of idiots just couldn't bear to vote for the alternative, so they split the vote. They went out of their way to do it. Why? Icky socialism and opportunistic idpol.
80% of portland wants an oversight board? Good luck with that, courts aren't going to let you do that. Contracts > Democracy, obviously. Just like they wouldn't let Seattle regulate the cops.
I mean honest to god the left in this country is so fucked that the state is about legalize murder and we have no response besides whining. It's hopeless. The only thing that will change anything is massive violence and societal collapse. That will only lead to worse places.
See that's not a new idea.
If you are trying to operate on that sort of timeline you've already lost.
It only has to happen once to break the spine of capital. It's extremely difficult to take things away from people that improve their lives. Once people are shown an alternative, it's over for capitalism. They have to win every battle. We have to win once.
Yes it's depressing right now, but this thing is just starting. Quality of life is dropping so precipitously that the clashes are inevitable - when those clashes occur you'll be out in the streets, same with me. Will those lead to anything? Maybe not, but what's the alternative? None of us can predict the future. Every coup is a long shot until it actually happens, and that comes from the coup masters the CIA.
Class consciousness is awakening. The imperial core is dying and neither political party has any solution.
They don't need to win every time because once they lose they will just start killing and not stop until it doesn't matter that we won.
Turn on chapo and hear them gloating about the lack of a coup and essentially saying anyone concerned at any point is a fool. Look at the right, it's people who have no use for democracy anymore and want the killing to start.