Oh God, oh shit, I said I wasn't going to do it. I said I wasn't going to start a China struggle session. Already getting flashbacks to the Discord.

But something just doesn't sit right with me and wanted to get some clarification here...

My question is this: why does China ban labor organizing/unions?

Is this yikes/intentional/actually a good thing?

(Yeah, I do know that labor unions are not always unequivocally good and sometimes they act more like middle management than as representatives of the workers... but democratizing the workplace seems like a no-brainer for any socialist project.)

Thoughts?

  • anthm17 [he/him]
    7·
    4 years ago

    https://www.bannedthought.net/China/Individuals/XiJinping/XiJinping-TheGovernanceOfChina.pdf

    The Third Plenary Session of the 18th CPC Central Committee changed the market’s role in allocating resources from “basic” to “decisive.” Although only one word was altered, the market’s role was redefined. “Decisive role” is a continuation and extension of “basic role.”

    I guess the precious free market doesn't like unions.

    We should remain committed to the reform to establish and improve the socialist market economy and bring the reform to a deeper and wider level. We should reduce the government’s direct involvement in resource allocation and its direct interference in micro-economic activities. We should step up efforts to develop a uniform market system characterized by openness and orderly competition, and set fair, open and transparent market rules. The government should refrain from getting involved in the economic activities that the market can regulate effectively, and let the market do what the government is not supposed to do, so that the market can play its role of maximizing the effectiveness and efficiency of resource allocation, and enterprises and individuals can have more room to develop the economy and create wealth with vigor and vitality.

    We have to get the government out of the market so that it can self-regulate and bring prosperity!

    edit: Other people have pointed out that they didn't allow unions before in favor of government sanctioned representation, but the government is willing to bend to capital (bend if not break). So how can you allow that without allowing some sort of worker representation? That's at best a really dangerous idea for any country that honestly wants to progress towards socialism, IMO.

    • AllCatsAreBeautiful [he/him]
      12·
      4 years ago

      Oh shit oh fuck oh shit he said it he really said it he said the thing we're not supposed to say!

      China already embraced capitalism and the further it liberalizes the more that the singular state labour union will serve as a means for corrupt government officials to extract wealth from workers while separating them from the means of production and reward their efficient free-market-cronies. See also: Ba'athist Syria

      Xi uses the mantra of "fighting corruption" in the same way that Modi does, to garner public support while eliminating political opponents. Not to say that Xi doesn't remove plenty of corrupt officials, but there's plenty of corruption he accepts among his allies. I don't criticize the PRC out of disdain, I criticize it because as an anti-imperialist force it has so much potential if it would stop liberalizing its economy and giving in to global capitalism.

      • KiaKaha [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Xi uses the mantra of “fighting corruption” in the same way that Modi does, to garner public support while eliminating political opponents.

        The better of the Washington Thinktanks disagree with you.

        If you actually look into it, Xi’s anti-corruption campaign is creating governance structures for rooting out corruption, and it has demonstrable effect.

        Those particularly close to Xi seem to be somewhat isolated, but it’s far from just a populist excuse to purge rivals. It’s institutional change, to counteract the very kinds of problems you’ve highlighted.

      • anthm17 [he/him]
        6·
        4 years ago

        I don’t criticize the PRC out of disdain, I criticize it because as an anti-imperialist force it has so much potential if it would stop liberalizing its economy and giving in to global capitalism.

        oh china/the CCP is absolutely still our best hope by far. Just the revisionists are too powerful in my ill informed shitposter opinion.

    • KiaKaha [he/him]
      1·
      4 years ago

      Come on, quote the rest of it, coward. Pages 95-99 for those of you who want to follow along.

      Our market economy is socialist, of course. We need to give leverage to the superiority of our socialist system, and let the Party and government perform their positive functions. The market plays a decisive role in allocating resources, but is not the sole actor in this regard.

      To develop the socialist market economy, leverage should be given to both the market and the government, with differentiated functions. The Decision put forth clear requirements for improving the functions of the government, emphasizing that scientific macro control and effective governance are the intrinsic requirements for giving more leverage to the advantages of the socialist market economy. The Decision also makes plans for improving macro control, correctly performing government functions in all areas, and improving the organization of government. It stresses that the main responsibility and role of the government is to maintain the stability of the macro economy, strengthen and improve public services, ensure fair competition, strengthen market oversight, maintain market order, promote sustainable development and common prosperity, and intervene in situations where market failure occurs.

      Second, adhering to and improving the basic economic system. The basic economic system with public ownership playing a leading role and all forms of ownership growing side by side is an important pillar of the socialist system with Chinese characteristics.

      Since the introduction of the reform and opening-up policy in 1978 the structure of ownership has undergone gradual adjustment, with the weights of the public and non-public sectors changing in their contribution to the economy and employment. The economy and society have grown more vigorous during this process. In such conditions, how to better recognize the leading role of public ownership and stick to this position and how to further explore the effective forms for materializing the basic economic system have become major topics for us.

      It is emphasized in the Decision that we must unswervingly consolidate and develop the public economy, persist in the leading role of public ownership, give full play to the leading role of the state-owned economy, and incessantly increase its vitality, leveraging power and impact.

      It then goes on to discuss the role of public ownership, and how it is to deal with the conflicts that occur between public ownership and public regulation. (Eg you have a state factory that wants to pollute a river. How do you ensure the state regulator doesn’t just shrug and let it?)

      • anthm17 [he/him]
        4·
        4 years ago

        Actually it was 134 and on, but call me a coward for reading a totally different part.