So I see a lot of people on Twitter being dumb about this whole thing Jimmy Dore said.

AOC included.

Her responses are cringe as fuck, but that's because the whole premise of both sides of the argument is fucking stupid.

So the issue is:

"Progressives" should withhold their vote for Pelosi unless she brings a floor vote to the house.

Alright, what the ever living hell is that?

Sorry, Jimmy Dore is an idiot.

He could have easily made this a "Stop Pelosi" push, but instead he said they should "support Pelosi if she gets a vote on Medicare for All"?

This has half the people saying "Yes! Do this" and the other half saying "Uhh, that seems dumb?"

Possible fix? Just outright block Pelosi with no conditions.

Take the Medicare for All issue off the table and suddenly the "uhh, that seems dumb?" people warm to the idea.

After all, both positions fail to clearly state that Pelosi under any circumstance is unacceptable in that position.

I'm going to try and contact Cori Bush's staff and talk with them about this idea, I feel like she might bite. If anybody else is a constituent of a "progressive" rep, I suggest you do the same.

  • WannabeRoach [none/use name]
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    edit-2
    4 years ago

    Yeah, my impression is that Dore is a big of an inconsistent thinker because he still has angry dum dum energy, and it seems like if this was the core of his ideology he would think the whole "people's party" thing is kind of unimportant. He is basically presenting the state as though it is the enemy, and that there is this concept of a movement or of "average people" so to speak (working people) who must demand things of the state, and the state will not want to give them because it is hostile. The state is assumed hostile, because it is filled with careerists and big money and all the rest, so what "politics" really is in this situation is the recognition that the state is hostile, and the recognition that it will try to weasel its way out of giving you what you want. He sees proceduralism as an ideological weapon, a way for the state and its representatives to tell you that the things you want can't happen because of opaque rules and games that you don't understand, but rest assured the professionals are figuring it out for you. Basically weaponizing complexity and bureaucracy to ideologically tame you and make you believe that things can't happen. So he is saying the political shift that he wants is for people to simply not accept any of that. Don't think like a state, think like a person being abused by a state. Demand that the state gives you what you want, demand that it makes it happen. Maintain that mentality, fully inhabit it, so that if the state comes back to you wringing its hands saying "ah, sorry, we couldn't do it because blah blah" the excuse is deeply unacceptable.

    I was trying to phrase some of that in Dore-speak but I kind of meandered back into language he wasn't using. But I get what he is fundamentally saying and generally agree with it. He is vague about it, but that is because he is a dum dum guy. He is saying that the people who are currently the supposed mouthpieces (the left media and the politicians like AOC) need to do what Bernie was originally doing successfully and make uncompromising demands of the system, and they need to tell the people that listen to them to have that mindset. This mass politics needs to be deeply ingrained into the ideology of the people currently aligning themselves with what they believe to be "the movement", but instead Jimmy is accusing them of just thinking like states, just giving cover for the system, just ideologically taming people and giving them excuses for why professional technocrats need to be allowed to maneuver for them through mazes of proceduralism that they know nothing about. They're basically saying leave it up to the experts, you may have passion for the revolution but you don't understand how to do it. He is saying NO, you shouldn't accept that. You and all of your friends and everybody who agrees with you need to group up and find ways to make the simple demand, and you need to have the full confidence that it CAN get done, and that you will MAKE IT get done.

    EDIT: I say the people's party seems like it would be unimportant to him because he genuinely sounded like an anarchist in that stream. Like, it doesn't really matter whose ass is in the seat, you shouldn't care. He was placing a lot of emphasis on the idea that politicians are all your enemies and they'll probably always be your enemies because power warps them into team players, so you need to make them bend to what you want and never think of a politician as your friend that you are making excuses for. They make excuses for themselves, you tell them (and presumably show them) that the excuses aren't acceptable.

    • Zodiark
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      edit-2
      4 months ago

      deleted by creator