• @sammytheman666@ttrpg.network
    hexbear
    27
    9 months ago

    Best way to decide is this : should a cantrip or level 1 spell one shot a target ?

    No. No it shouldnt. Disintegrate can because its a very high level spell slot. But resources wise, foot the fucking bill please.

    But I would allow its use to torture a captured target by waterboarding.

    • booty [he/him]
      hexbear
      14
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Well it depends on the circumstance. The "captured target" you mention is helpless. You absolutely can oneshot him with any number of cantrips, or other mundane actions. You could oneshot him with a "use an object" action if that object is a lever controlling a trapdoor over a deep pit.

      Point is, you certainly can drown someone with 30 gallons of water. You just have to set up for it correctly. I don't really like the implication of your comment and the original post that it's unreasonable to try such a thing just because the number used to categorize the spell is too low.

      • Eris235 [undecided]
        hexbear
        15
        9 months ago

        If the target is already captured or subdued, nothing can oneshot them. That's just coup de grace.

        "one shot" says to me that it instantly kill or removes as a threat an as-of-yet untouched and un-interacted-with target.

      • @ShranTheWaterPoloFan@startrek.website
        hexbear
        11
        9 months ago

        When people try to drown someone with create water they aren't talking about creating water then drowning the person the old fashioned way, it's "I cast create water in the lungs of that guy!"

        Other popular "ideas" include - -Casting light on someone's eyes so they go blind -Trying to target eardrums with shatter -Conflating charm person with dominate person -Attacking with mage hand -prestidigitation solves every problem and has no limits

        It's not that there is an arbitrary "number too low" problem, it's that these spells explicitly state what they can do. Players sometimes feel "creativity" means they perform actions the spell doesn't allow, and moreover are actually achieved by much more powerful spells.

        • booty [he/him]
          hexbear
          4
          9 months ago

          it's "I cast create water in the lungs of that guy!"

          I mean that just obviously doesn't work because you don't have a clear path to that guy's lungs. His clothes and skin and bones are in the way. Furthermore, a creature's lungs are not a container, and even if they were, it would be difficult to argue that they are an open container. But there are still a wide variety of ways it would be possible to drown someone using create water, and personally, I would sooner assume that the hypothetical player involved is considering one of those ways rather than a completely nonsensical way that doesn't even begin to fit with the basic rules of spellcasting.

          • @ShranTheWaterPoloFan@startrek.website
            hexbear
            8
            9 months ago

            https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/cemh20/using_createdestroy_water_to_kill_someone/

            https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/vqyu78/create_or_destroy_water_in_someones_lungs/

            https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/cdtb5c/can_create_food_and_water_be_used_to_drown/

            https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/ql764n/so_weve_all_heard_of_the_fill_their_lungs_with/

            https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/tips-tactics/31598-flooding-somones-lungs

            https://www.quora.com/Can-you-create-or-destroy-water-to-kill-someone-in-D-D

            There are more. So many more. I just got tired of copying and pasting.

        • TheLepidopterists [he/him]
          hexbear
          3
          9 months ago

          Casting light on someone's eyes so they go blind

          Funny enough, in b/x D&D this was explicitly allowed. They got a save though, and light was a 1st level spell, not a cantrip so it was more like color spray that also gave you a magical light that followed you around afterward than an infinitely castable save or suck cantrip.

      • @sammytheman666@ttrpg.network
        hexbear
        9
        9 months ago

        Its a resource management game. Either you use your imagination and roll a few chance dice, or you use an appropriate resource for it. Which is why killing a target that isnt already captures with a cantrip one shot doesnt work.

    • @sammytheman666@ttrpg.network
      hexbear
      3
      9 months ago

      I allow for creativity, but doing something cool without resources requires to be lucky. Either you use resources (abilities, spell slots, items, weapons, terrain, etc) or you hope to get lucky on a low chance plan.

  • @vxcvbzn@ttrpg.network
    hexbear
    11
    9 months ago

    I'd simply argue that lungs are too convoluted in their layout to be considered a container. Mouth is theoretically not an open container because it has multiple openings.

  • notceps [he/him]
    hexbear
    10
    9 months ago

    Just gently remind the player that it is a game, if they insist tell them that a Chimpanzee has a STR of 14 and since most fighters would have that or well above instead of doing the ole 'have at thee' they'd could just grapple them and crush their windpipe, if you have some ogre they realistically would just grab the wizard and pop them like a waterballoon but obviously no one does this because it's boring and makes for a bad game.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]
      hexbear
      4
      9 months ago

      I think that sounds really interesting, but for a different kind of game from what many people would want to play.