For me it's Dragon Ball Z, that was a pretty fucked up show tbh.
Like holy shit, all the characters are terrible people except maybe Gohan and Trunks.
For me it's Dragon Ball Z, that was a pretty fucked up show tbh.
Like holy shit, all the characters are terrible people except maybe Gohan and Trunks.
Though I consumed many pieces of fiction mentioned here, and admit they made they problematic assumptions, I want to disagree with the general vibe that it is the job of fiction to be perfect and unproblematic in every way.
I can absolutely see how bad messaging could make you not enjoy it, and bad messaging is always worthy of criticism, but it doesn't inherently make any fiction objectively 'bad'.
Big Joel talked about this in a video about the Lion King. He went on for like 15-20 minutes about how messed up it is that the hyenas are portrayed as naturally evil, basically a plague of locusts that, if allowed into your territory, will turn it into a barren wasteland and how this is just how they are. How they're a horde of violent savages that must be kept out of lion territory, and the story validates this by showing that once Scar takes over and the hyenas are allowed in, it is indeed turned into a hellscape with no food left over for anyone.
And then he says "But here's the thing: The Lion King objectively slaps".
It really is possible to enjoy something while also accepting there's problems and issues with it, especially when it comes to who is absorbing the messages it has.
My favorite novel of all time is Dune and its gender politics alone are fuuuuuuuuuucked. If I was showing a child of mine that book for the first time I'd at the very least talk about that, among other issues in it because I don't think entertainment products must go entirely without criticism or critical discussion "or else the job of fiction is to be perfect and unproblematic in any way."
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It wasn't just a societal structure; until the Universal Super Being showed up, his fiction stated that men could only do these superpowers and women could only do those superpowers and in fact were terrified of the men's side of the superpowers as a plot point.
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Maybe you're right; it's been a while since I read the book and was mostly going off of decades-old recollections.
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I don't think anyone here declared that desire, let alone intent. You're condemning something that isn't happening in this thread.
It really is possible to enjoy something while also accepting that it has problematic elements. You claim you are already doing that, yet you're also claiming (falsely) that people here are demanding "perfect and unproblematic" fiction, which is nowhere to be found in this thread.
There's some pretty bad literature out there that has affected people in a bad way more than it did in a good way and has had a distinctly lasting negative impact on the societies that consumed it. Mein Kampf, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and Atlas Shrugged all come to mind.
No one is immune to propaganda, and trying to stop people from criticizing entertainment is itself a political statement in support of the status quo by trying to omit dissent and critique.
EDIT: As one more example, yes I will say it's probably "objectively" bad when 4ch!n fascists goad impressionable young people into binge watching gory snuff films to "numb" them in exchange for social acceptance there.
I'm not trying to stop criticism of entertainment, that's a massive assumption.
If I've misread the vibe, that's okay, I could be wrong, it's just what I've felt. Apologies for any misunderstanding.
This part at the start did resemble something like that and didn't seem like that much of a massive assumption on my part:
I don't think anyone here asked for or even wanted that, myself included.
It's all good.
The issue for me is that a lot of the media is targeted at kids, who do not view things critically or "in context". This "it has to be viewed in context" is one of the greatest cop-outs in my opinion, because it makes consuming entertainment media an academic exercise, which it won't be 99% of the time. People will defend Herge's comics for example as "a product of its time and it has to be viewed in this context" which is true on its surface, but then those comics are still found in the childrens comic book section at the library, because those are the only ones who are interested in them.
And it really is everywhere this messaging, and it's impossible to protect your child from it because it will be confronted with it by means of parents who don't inspect the media their kids consumes as critically. Or maybe they're even onboard with the cute messaging of paw patrol or whatever.
If a piece of media addresses problematic themes (via fiction or other) it must be in an age-appropriate manner than sets it in context itself and shouldn't require secondary literature to understand the background.
Also I hate watching childhood shows and having the memory of them marred by realising the fascist messaging in them.
I agree, but because that is even suggesting something other than a treat free-for-all the above poster seems against it under the guise of it being a demand "to be perfect and unproblematic in any way."
Too many people hold the position that if they as individuals are fine with someone as it is then it is perfectly fine for everyone else regardless of their age or other circumstances. It's atomized consumerist "I got mine" mentality that is very selfish and counterproductive.
This is what I demand of the food I feed my kid, and I don't see why I should demand less from the media they get to consume either.
Your choices are anything goes when it comes to what's in kids' breakfast (including random chances of lead, arsenic, and botulism) or mandatory nutritional paste with no flavor added. Concern of any kind means you go to the latter choice automatically. CHOOSE.
I cant tell if you're joking because those legitimately are the only two options for baby food in the innovative free market. I'm so glad my wife is such a creative and talented cook because our situation would be dire otherwise.
I was expounding upon the person's claim that any criticism of consumer entertainment is an expectation of (and demand for) perfection, but now that you mention it, yes, it is pretty dire that those pretty much are the choices for feeding kids in an increasingly deregulated FreedomLand(tm).
also the baby paste is also likely to randonly have lead in it.
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